Are the philosophical arguments much better? Are any of those cartoonish in your view? — DingoJones
I used to be an atheist up to my early twenties but as a grew older I had some personal experiences which swayed me rather than scripture which I never found convincing to begin with. — kindred
The fact that so much evil has been done in the name of Christianity has no bearing on whether there's a god or not. — Tom Storm
Unless the god in question could/would/should stop or curb that evil. — DingoJones
For the record I’m not a schizophrenic and the scenario I’ve just described has only happened once but that’s all it took to convince me. — kindred
Obviously the shocking thing was to hear something in my head in the first place almost like a loud voice and not the usual internal monologue, to have this exact phrase repeated by a family member truly shocked me which is why I believe that there’s a higher power, for what else could explain it — kindred
I believe that there’s a higher power, for what else could explain it. — kindred
s there any way we can demonstrate either way for certain? — Tom Storm
but it sounds like you believe no one has any knowledge about god, from the bible or otherwise. Is that correct, and if so why do you suppose that is? — DingoJones
:up: :up:... [M]odels of God have no bearing on whether there is a God or not, only on what people claim about God. — Tom Storm
Even many theists, especially the apophatics, argue that nothing sensible can really be said about God. It’s all mystery. I just take their move one step further: if that’s the case, why not forget about it and piss the God idea off altogether? — Tom Storm
In the end, I think theism (as I’ve often said) is a matter of preference, much like sexual orientation: you can’t help what you’re attracted to. It’s shaped by culture, upbringing, aesthetics, and a person’s preferences for how they construe meaning.
7h — Tom Storm
I disagree here. I would call it need rather than preference. Some people seem to need religion or god or mystery or whatever and some people do not, some people are comfortable with no greater meaning and some are not. Preference implies an array of different paths on a journey but actually its a matter of being on a journey or not in a journey at all. — DingoJones
I think even when a meaning seeker rejects religion they will find another path to it by another name. The ones who aren’t searching for meaning (or at least meaning beyond the physical world), aren’t selecting any preferences because they aren’t looking for anything (beyond the physical world) — DingoJones
To compare it to a deviance..I don't know if I'd go that far.All I mean is that some people are 'turned on' by theism and some are not, just as some are attracted to boys and not girls. — Tom Storm
I think even when a meaning seeker rejects religion they will find another path to it by another name. — DingoJones
To compare it to a deviance..I don't know if I'd go that far. — Paula Tozer
In my view, it's absolutely unnecessary to follow a deity. — Paula Tozer
Everyone I know has been altered by religious ideology - that includes Catholic, Baptist, as well as other Protestant religions. — Paula Tozer
I don’t disagree with this. All I mean is that some people are 'turned on' by theism and some are not, just as some are attracted to boys and not girls. I meant preference in that sense, that it is essentially an orientation rather than a reasoned choice. But I think “need” works fine too in a broader sense. And I would include the need 'not to believe' in God along with the 'need to believe'. Both atheism and theism could be understood as sources of affective satisfaction. — Tom Storm
It has sometimes interested me how many atheists actually believe in supernatural claims. It’s only God they don’t accept. Some atheists I’ve known believe in astrology, ghosts, clairvoyance, and other occult phenomena. So I’m not sure what the connection between God, religion, and the occult actually is for some folk. It’s more the Dawkins-style atheists who are galvanised by empiricism who seem to find any supernatural thesis anathema. — Tom Storm
On this point, I also ask you to consider the role that religion has played in each of these different aspects of human life. My initial point with the post was to ask readers to consider the basis for most of the contention and separation that we see globally as being religious ideology. I — Paula Tozer
Are you a 'meaning seeking' type of person such as you have described? Where do you sit on this? — Tom Storm
HA! I agree, we have a way of messing with a good thing...power hungry, most trying to be the top gun in a world where violence reigns. It's interesting to hear your perspective - a person who no longer shouts his atheist perspective from the rooftops. I've noticed, among those who do not believe in a deity of any sort, that they do take great pleasure in being right - at least on the forums I've visited. Whether the perspective has had the life flogged out of it or not, it's still relevant to our discussion, I think. To your point - I've listened to Dawkins and Hitchens, and even though they are much closer to the truth than I believe that religion can be, I do not agree with their aggressive posture. Where I live, it's very hard to find someone of like mind (at least so far). My frustration with anyone who accepts what they've been told on blind faith stems from my background and experiences. A priest and a nun who are tough on religion...very interesting...I wonder what they actually know to be true for them?Personally I think humans fuck everything up, whether it’s secular or religious. — Tom Storm
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