Actually they do exist. For example, a quantum processor developed by Google is discussed here: https://www.tum.de/en/news-and-events/all-news/press-releases/details/exotic-phase-of-matter-realized-on-a-quantum-processor — wonderer1

Thank you, that is the most comprehensive explanation I have read, and I bookmarked it.

I disagree about the breaking the part. I'd say we use science to learn the rules, and learn what can be accomplished by doing things in accordance with the rules. — wonderer1

:lol: Well, we can certainly argue that point. If God wanted man to fly, he would have given them wings. Of course, I agree with you, but some might say that filling the air with carbon dioxide is breaking a rule that should not be broken, and the consequences will lead to regret. This is dear to my heart because of how I understand democracy, and doing "the right thing". Ideally, science leads to better decision-making, not the destruction of the plant, and a few aboriginal people around the world are much more sensitive to living in harmony with nature, than God's chosen people. :brow:

I disagree. An abstraction leaves us with something general and something specific. And their relationship is one of similarity. I consider, on the other hand, following Deleuze, that an idea is a virtual set of relationships and powers that revolve around a nucleus. For example, the Idea of colour is a system of relationships of intensity, light and vibration which, when actualised in a body or object, produces a multiplicity of concrete colours. The Idea is the network of relationships, not the final object. We create the concept of red as a result of this network of relationships and potentials. But the concept of red no longer represents anything neither is something specific to something general. The idea is the relational that creates something concrete. In this sense an idea is something objective and virtual. — JuanZu

This does not look like the thinking of a binary American. Are you from another culture? In my book, that makes you more valuable. Different points of view are important. Especially with a quantum physics future.

I just posted this on another thread. It certainly fits here. Obviously, nobody is going to agree with me. :grin: But this might be my answer.

• The brain is a physical object.
  
• There is activity in the brain.
  
• Our consciousness of - that is, our subjective experience of - the brain's activity is the mind. At least some of its activity. Not, for example, the activity that keeps the heart beating. I'm talking about the activity that perceives, retrieves stored information, weighs multiple options and chooses one over the others, and other things that we think of as mental activity. All of these things are physical activity, involving ions, neurotransmitters, bioelectric impulses, etc. The mind is our subjective experience of that mechanical activity. Brain activity is photons hitting the retina, sending signals to the brain, etc. Our subjective awareness of that is red.
  
• I'm not sure there's a difference between mind and ideas. What mind exists when there are no ideas? Information about past events and thoughts are held in a storage system. At any moment they are being accessed, they are memories, which are part of the mind. What about when they are not being accessed? They are physical structures (I don't know the specifics of the storage mechanisms) just sitting there, not doing more than they would be doing if time was frozen. This idea isn't limited to memories. It applies to anything regarding our minds and thoughts.
  
  Or is there a difference between thoughts and ideas? Are there thoughts that aren't ideas?

Or is there a difference between thoughts and ideas? Are there thoughts that aren't ideas? — Patterner

If you are an objective idealist like Plato, ideas are something external to the subject, and thought simply access to these ideas.

From my point of view, ideas are the objective relationality that takes concrete form in thought. For example, the idea of justice involves human beings, relationships between them, coexistence between them, duties, power and legislation. These things are objectively related, and the subject perceives them as a problem that is decided in the concept. For example, distributive justice is the concretisation in the subject of these virtual relationships.