Will that cell generate consciousness? — Copernicus

That's the question: what makes carbon-based life so special to generate consciousness when carbon is just another physical element. Cells and organs, like brains, are all "physical" objects. How does a brain, or its interaction of neurons generate the feeling of visual depth and empty space?

Complexity doesn't seem to solve the problem. It's this dualistic discrepancy between how the world appears and how the mind is. No matter how far I dig into your skull I'm never going to view your view, yet it is the one thing I know exists (at least for myself). Why is that? Why don't I experience the inside of my brain like you would if you dissected it? I don't experience a visual representation of neurons firing in certain patterns. I experience sounds, empty space, smells, tactile sensations, and feelings.

Isn't a possibility that I'm not seeing the world as it is - as physical objects. My mind is more like how the world is - a process - and its processes all the way down, not physical stuff, and we are confusing the map with the territory.

The word "artificial" is a relative term. Rhetorical question: If artificial things are not natural, then what are they? Supernatural? — punos

'Artificial' is not the same as 'unnatural' or 'supernatural', even though all of these words are contrasted to 'natural'. Artificial means made by human art, often, but not necessarily, imitating something that is not (that's the meaning that is most relevant to this discussion - there are others, of course). It denotes a perfectly coherent distinction, useful in its place.

Why is that? — Harry Hindu

I think I've equated it with the eye's inability to see itself.

'Artificial' is not the same as 'unnatural' or 'supernatural', even though all of these words are contrasted to 'natural'. Artificial means made by human art, often, but not necessarily, imitating something that is not (that's the meaning that is most relevant to this discussion - there are others, of course). It denotes a perfectly coherent distinction, useful in its place. — SophistiCat

This was precisely my point. It sounds like you're saying what i'm saying.

Yet, only cellular life forms display sentience and sapience — Copernicus

Is it possible some machines are conscious?

Is it possible some machines are conscious? — RogueAI

It was never proved or observed. And one of the outcomes of consciousness is free will. But what is "will" exactly? A person in a coma or paralysis has consciousness, but physical inability to execute will. Does he lack free will? If not, how do you know he has free will? Just because he was born with it?

It was never proved or observed. — Copernicus

How would you prove or observe machine consciousness? If a machine race of aliens showed up one day, and claimed they were conscious, and were dubious of our claims of consciousness, how could we prove to them that the chunk of meat in our skull is conscious? How could they prove to us that they themselves are conscious?

Supernatural? — punos

What is the definition of supernatural?

If there is any "anomaly" to the natural law, is it unnatural? Does that make entropy or other chemical reaction exceptions unnatural?

Why would a universe that values order also permit chaos?
Perhaps because rigidity without decay would yield stagnation. Entropy ensures transformation.
If the laws are the skeleton of the cosmos, entropy is its pulse—its motion through time. The two are not contradictions but complements: order defines the possible, entropy defines the dynamic.

The cosmos, then, is not a tyrant of predictability, but a governor of structured uncertainty.

Alam, T. B. (2025). The Selective Universe: Order, Entropy, and the Philosophical Paradox of Natural Rigidity [Zenodo]. https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.17341242

How would you prove or observe machine consciousness? — RogueAI

one of the outcomes of consciousness is free will. — Copernicus

Could you expand on that?

cell is widely accepted as the precondition for living matter (i.e., those who have free will and mind). machines lack cells.

What is the definition of supernatural? — Copernicus

Outside or above nature. There are other ways to define it, but i think this is what most people mean by it.

If there is any "anomaly" to the natural law, is it unnatural? — Copernicus

An "anomaly" would be a "miracle", and yes, it would be unnatural, thus not a possibility. If something appears anomalous or miraculous, it is because we do not yet understand its natural nature.

Why would a universe that values order also permit chaos?

Chaos is just hidden order. True chaos, randomness, or uncertainty do not exist in the universe, only in the minds of entities with imperfect information or knowledge. Probability is our adaptation to the imperceptibility of these hidden orders of organization and information. As human consciousness, or consciousness in general, expands, it will come to encompass these hidden orders. Artificial intelligence is part of this ongoing process of expanding and extending consciousness.

Perhaps because rigidity without decay would yield stagnation. Entropy ensures transformation.

The rigidity of order is overcome by the expansion of space. Space affords order the ability to reorganize and complexify. Without space it would be locked in on itself, and imprisoned by itself. Entropy begins when space expands to create the degrees of freedom matter (information) must have for higher order complexification and organization. Space is also what allows for decay, but the decay itself is also ordered. So yes, entropy essentially does ensure transformation.

If the laws are the skeleton of the cosmos, entropy is its pulse—its motion through time. The two are not contradictions but complements: order defines the possible, entropy defines the dynamic.

I agree with this part, but only within the model or framework i described above.

The cosmos, then, is not a tyrant of predictability, but a governor of structured uncertainty.

As i implied, the universe is always certain about what it will do in the next moment in time. This means it can predict its own immediate next state, but not any state beyond that. In essence, i am saying that the universe, or the cosmos, is superdeterministic, and ruled entirely by order.