• Truth Seeker
    1.1k
    The Equal Omniscience and Omnipotence Argument

    Premise 1:

    If a being is omniscient, it knows every possible outcome of every possible creation.

    Premise 2:

    If a being is omnipotent, it has the power to bring about any logically possible outcome, including the existence of beings who are equally omniscient and omnipotent.

    Premise 3:

    A world where all sentient beings are equally omniscient and omnipotent would contain no involuntary suffering, no vulnerability, and no inequality, since each being could prevent harm to itself and others.

    Premise 4:

    A perfectly omnibenevolent being necessarily prefers the outcome that maximizes well-being and minimizes suffering.

    Premise 5:

    Creating vulnerable, ignorant, and powerless sentient beings when one could instead create equally omniscient and omnipotent beings knowingly introduces avoidable suffering.

    Premise 6:

    Knowingly introducing avoidable suffering contradicts omnibenevolence.

    Conclusion 1:

    If a deity created sentient beings who suffer, that deity either lacked the knowledge, the power, or the will to prevent that suffering.

    Conclusion 2:

    Therefore, such a deity cannot be simultaneously omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent.

    1. If God could have made all beings equally omniscient and omnipotent but did not, God is not omnibenevolent.
    2. If God wanted to but could not, God is not omnipotent.
    3. If God did not know such a creation was possible, God is not omniscient.
    Therefore, a being responsible for preventable suffering cannot be all three at once.
  • Philosophim
    3.2k
    A nice start, but lets find the real lesson here.

    You've defined 3 impossible terms. Lets tweak them a bit.

    Omniscient - A being which knows what can possibly be known.
    Omnipotent - A being which is as powerful as a being can possibly be.
    Omnibenevolent - A being which is as good as a being can possibly be.

    Now the contradiction goes away. Define impossible terms and you get impossible results.
  • Truth Seeker
    1.1k
    Redefining the terms might seem to remove the contradiction, but it really just hides it behind vaguer language. If “omniscient” now means “knows what can possibly be known,” the obvious question is: who decides what counts as “possible”? If suffering is deemed “unknowable” or “unpreventable,” that’s not solving the problem - it’s admitting that the being isn’t truly all-knowing or all-powerful. It turns the classical God into a very capable but ultimately limited entity.

    Likewise, “as powerful as a being can possibly be” is circular. Possible given what? If a world without suffering is logically possible, then failing to create such a world shows a lack of either power, knowledge, or will. If it’s not possible, then reality itself imposes limits on this being, meaning omnipotence was never real to begin with.

    And morally, the issue doesn’t go away. Even if this being is “as good as possible,” if it foresaw preventable suffering and chose to allow it, then by any coherent moral standard, it’s not maximally good. If goodness allows needless agony, the word loses meaning.

    So, redefining the terms doesn’t eliminate the contradiction - it just concedes that the traditional “all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good” God can’t exist without being reinterpreted as a finite or morally compromised one.
  • Philosophim
    3.2k
    it’s admitting that the being isn’t truly all-knowing or all-powerful. It turns the classical God into a very capable but ultimately limited entity.Truth Seeker

    Correct. Thus, the problem is solved. No being can be unlimited. The lesson is to ensure that one's definitions do not cross into impossible territory. Whenever listening to anyone's proposed terms, one should first evaluate whether the terms are logical in themselves before accepting them as true.

    Likewise, “as powerful as a being can possibly be” is circular. Possible given what?Truth Seeker

    Given the limits of reality. We don't know those limits, so putting them forth is futile.

    If a world without suffering is logically possibleTruth Seeker

    We do not know this. It may not be possible.

    If it’s not possible, then reality itself imposes limits on this being, meaning omnipotence was never real to begin with.Truth Seeker

    Even if it were possible, omnipotence defined as "All powerful" is impossible. The term itself results in the ability to not contradict when a contradiction occurs. There are limits to everything.

    And morally, the issue doesn’t go away. Even if this being is “as good as possible,” if it foresaw preventable suffering and chose to allow it, then by any coherent moral standard, it’s not maximally good.Truth Seeker

    If it foresaw unnecessary suffering, had the power to do something about it, and suffering was truthfully evil in this instance, then we can imagine a better being existing because there are humans who would do something about that. Meaning you haven't made a contradiction, you've simply yet to describe the the most benevolent being that has the power to prevent 'evil'.

    So, redefining the terms doesn’t eliminate the contradiction - it just concedes that the traditional “all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good” God can’t exist without being reinterpreted as a finite or morally compromised one.Truth Seeker

    It doesn't have to be that a God is morally compromised. It simply means if you are going to describe a God with impossible terms, you're going to get an impossible conclusion. The only realistic way to describe a God is with realistic terms.
  • unenlightened
    10k
    Suffering is good for the soul.
    Imperfection is better than perfection.
    Knowledge creates the unknown.
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