• NotAristotle
    582
    So the whole practice of referring becomes pointless.Ludwig V

    I do not see the problem; could you say it in another way?
  • Metaphysician Undercover
    14.6k
    No, that's not what contingent means.Relativist

    "Contingent" has varied meaning, it's quite ambiguous. I dismiss determinism, fatalism, and necessitarianism as fundamentally incompatible with our experience.

    I perceive that the sun is shining. In my actual world the sun is shining.

    I imagine a possible world in which the sun is not shining. It is possible that there is an actual world where the sun is not shining.

    Actual worlds may exist or possibly exist.
    RussellA

    As I explained, that renders "actual" as meaningless. By "meaningless" I mean you could give it any meaning you want, but you haven't so it has no meaning. The world you perceive is "actual". The world you imagine is "actual". You could imagine anything, and that could be said to be "actual". What does "actual" mean? It doesn't mean to be imagined, because what you perceive is actual as well. It isn't that someone, not necessarily, you is perceiving it, because the imaginary ones are actual.

    What meaning does "actual" have here? You could remove it from your example without changing the meaning of anything. "I perceive that the sun is shining. In my world the sun is shining." "I imagine a possible world in which the sun is not shining. It is possible that there is a world where the sun is not shining." See, "actual" does absolutely nothing in your usage.

    In standard modal logic there is exactly one actual world.Banno

    This states very clearly and precisely, in a nutshell, the significant and substantial problem with possible worlds semantics. We must deny what you yourself acknowledged as the very real and important difference, between the "actual world" of ontology, and the "actual world" of modal logic. To avoid the fallacy of equivocation, there must be "exactly one actual world". The glaring problem though, is that "actual world" is assigned to the modal model, not the ontological world, plunging modal logic deep into Idealism.

    (ii) its designated “actual world” is in fact the actual world, — SEP
  • frank
    18.5k
    Just a note, I've bowed out of the above discussion, but when Banno is ready to move on, I'm all in.
  • RussellA
    2.5k
    Well, you/Kripke have your reasons for saying that, I suppose. But it is clear that whatever "water" means is not based on that information.Ludwig V

    What does “water” mean? Water means different things to different people. To a scientist, water is necessarily H2O. To me, water is necessarily wet, in that if not wet it cannot be water. To a linguist, “water” is necessarily a noun. There is no one meaning of “water”, though each meaning is necessary within its own context.
    =====================================================================
    Again, perhaps so. But it follows that, whoever is called Aristotle is not necessarily the philosopher that we know and love.Ludwig V

    You love Aristotle for his philosophy. But instead of being born in Stagira, he could have been born in Athens and grown up to be a carpenter. So do you love Aristotle because of who he was or what he did?
1910111213Next
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.