Esse Quam Videri
Michael
Right — phenomenal character is necessary for awareness of the apple. But necessity (or counterfactual dependence) is not mediation. I can’t see the apple without my eyes, but my eyes aren’t what I see. Phenomenal character is what my awareness of the apple consists in — the mode of perceiving — not a second object I perceive on my way to the apple. — Esse Quam Videri
Ludwig V
So we agree that the apple isn't part of our experience. It's not much, but it is something. Suppose I understand seeing something as relationship between the subject who sees and an object which is seen. Then the demand that the apple be in my eye is a misunderstanding of what "see" means. I think that is down to thinking of introspection as, in some way, a paradigm of how the senses work. In that case, perception and hearing are suspect, just because they work at a distance from their objects. For me, it is introspection that is suspect, just because it cannot be wrong and therefore cannot be right. I think the model of perception (as involving a subject and an object that is distinct from the subject) collapses in introspection. Hence I regard "I am in pain" as not a proposition like "I see an apple"'. I go with Wittgenstein in thinking of it as an expression, not a statement.Then what would experience be of? If the objects you witness aren't part of your experience, and yet there are also no images in your mind that could be part of your experiences, where are you getting them? Here, image can simply mean "the image" of hte apple when you cast your eyes to it; it need not be mediated. I just want some story that doens't require an apple to be in your experience.
Well, there are grounds for calling the scientific story "indirect" and grounds for call it "direct". I think the relationship is more complicated than that. "I see an apple" has what is called "success logic". It is only true I do see an apple. It is like "I won the race", that is, it is about outcomes, not processes. The running of the race stands to the winning of the race in the same logical relationship is the scientific story stands to "I see an apple".I don't even understand how that could be the case. To me, it(the scientific story)'s a full analysis of what actually happens when we cast our eyes about us. I refuse, on grounds of consistency/incoherence, to call it Direct. There's nothing further needed imo. It's just slightly uncomfortable for those of us who require that the apple is in our eye.
Just to be clear, I don't think "I see an apple" is anywhere near being any kind of theory. It is where theory might start, but only as the question - no particular answer is implied. See above on success logic. It follows, I think, as @Banno suggests, or at least, as I interpret him as suggestng, "Direct realism" as a theory of perception is coined as a reaction to indirect realism.The 'vulgar' ways of talking are heuristic/pragmatic/easier to parse but that doesn't make them right. They can just be wrong, but helpful.
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