If you think that many European countries are more right leaning than the US over the past half-century I woudl have to say 'not true'. — I like sushi

For the most part, Europe is not socialist. Private ownership of the means of production is the rule there. What you're calling socialism is actually just government hand-outs.

I think you are just looking for an argument that doe snot exist. I never cliamed any country in Europes was socialist. I literally just quoted what I said in the context I said it.

I think you are just looking for an argument that doe snot exist. I never cliamed any country in Europes was socialist. I literally just quoted what I said in the context I said it. — I like sushi

How are we supposed to have a conversation if we're in agreement?

How are we to have any reasonable chance of disagreeing if you cannot take what I say as I say it.

If you wan tto show evidence that the US governements ,over the past 50 yrs or so, has been more left leaning than European countries go ahead. Would be interesting to see.

If you wan tto show evidence that the US governements ,over the past 50 yrs or so, has been more left leaning than European countries go ahead. Would be interesting to see. — I like sushi

I didn't say it was more left leaning. My point was that except for maybe France, Europe is not left of the US in any significant way. Europe is a land of private ownership.

I said over the last 50 yrs. Even now it is more or less the case across Europe (particularly I was looking west/north/south).

In the US the democrats have always been centrist (at best) in comparison europe. When has there been a significant (or any) government representatives in positions of governmental power (voted in) in the US who were clearly Leftist? If there were how do those numbers compare to European countries where a constant significant proportion of Left leaning representatives have been voted in.

In terms of welfare state policies there is no real contest. In terms of economic distibrution the same is true enough.

So, no. I strongly stand by my initial claim. The US has been more right leaning compared to Europe for the past 50 yrs or so.

If there were how do those numbers compare to European countries where a constant significant proportion of Left leaning representatives have been voted in. — I like sushi

And yet there's still little in the way of socialism in Europe. That's because the EU controls economic policy, and it's firmly neo-liberal. Again, what you're pointing to as evidence of European leftism is just government handouts in an otherwise liberal domain.

Watch what happens to the handouts as European nations attempt to create their own defense. :confused:

It's not just a questionable effect on the economy. The British grooming scandal wasn't economical. There are real concerns with male immigrants from countries with institutionalized misogyny. — RogueAI

Never underestimate the impact of the economy, as these tensions flare up in economically distressed areas. There's a lot of foreigners in Mayfair and other posh sites in Central London with a lot of foreigners, but .

In a way the grooming scandal was more about the actions of the police and the officials. There's an antidote to this: the police will openly go public with the statistics of who are the criminals, what crimes have immigrants done and simply don't have double standards when it comes to immigrants. The credibility of the police isn't then on the line and this takes way the opportunity of conspiracy theorists to take hold on the public discourse.

What of immigrant groups that claim to possess absolute truth and consider it their prerogative to spread or impose it on the native population? — BitconnectCarlos

What immigrant group are you talking about acting this way? Americans in Latin America or what? I think you confuse those vocal people speaking on the behalf of immigrants, when it comes to Western countries.

Usually migrants do understand the age old truth of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". Especially when it is religion that makes the people not to behave this way, then there's friction. Yet if the foreigners, just like tourists or foreign investors, do bring money into the economy, they usually are tolerated. If not, then these differences emerge far quicker.

Just think of what would be the attitude towards tourists, if they wouldn't buy souvenirs and use local services. Who would tolerate cheap vagrants just strolling everywhere eating their own food or worse, just begging for food? In India they absolutely hate the Western people who live as hippies with a shoestring budget and are on a "spiritual trip" in the country.

And yet there's still little in the way of socialism in Europe. — frank

You are obsessing about this. I said leaning towards socialism not that there are socialist countries in Europe. No point in discussing further if all you can do is keep repeating the same thign as if I said 'Europe is Socialist and the US is not Socialist'. That is not what I said at all.

Again, what you're pointing to as evidence of European leftism is just government handouts in an otherwise liberal domain. — frank

Incorrect. I actually said the number of officials voted for (based on policies; which is kind of rare in the US as the campiagn system is basically little more than advertising rather than presenting any kind of manifesto) to represent the population and that are therefore in government positions.

Let me surmise:

- Actual left leaning representives voted into office in the government (Europe is hands down the winner here both now and over the last half century).
- No contest in terms of welfare state.
- No contest in terms of economic distribution.

If you wish to contest these then go ahead. If you say Europe has no socialist governments once more I am just going to disengage and assume you have no real response to anything I am stating.

And yet there's still little in the way of socialism in Europe. That's because the EU controls economic policy, and it's firmly neo-liberal. Again, what you're pointing to as evidence of European leftism is just government handouts in an otherwise liberal domain. — frank

One note to the discussion that you and @I like sushi are having: the political discourse is obviously quite different between the continents, but the actual government spending is quite the same. Which is quite surprising as the US doesn't have universal health care etc. Even if the US usually denies it and thinks the European countries are the "welfare nanny-states", the similarities are obvious.



Just compare this to let's say German budget in 2020, when the rearmament issue hadn't emerged: