That would describe a map. Google Maps is much more than that. — Akanthinos
Well, it is difficult to draw a hard line between what the Mind creates and the Mind itself. — Rich
Perhaps it's difficult because the mind directly observing itself didn't create any of the examples you offered? — bloodninja
hat does a football game have to do with meditation or with direct observation of mind? — bloodninja
I don't pretend I don't have a mind at all. All I'm saying is that the football game is primarily engaged circumspective coping activity, not mind. — bloodninja
I think you need to stop twisting everything into the mind directly observing the mind — bloodninja
No one is denying the existence of minds. What is being denied is your explanation of what mind is and how it comes to be.What is silly is denying one's own mind in favor of some mystical Laws of Nature that determine our lives. Totally absurd on so many levels. — Rich
What do you mean by, "observe"? How does a mind observe a mind? What keeps us from observing other minds?That is what it is. It is impossible to avoid it. Even in mediation, one is observing one's own Mind. The sole exception in my experiences is when one is unconscious it's in a non-dreaming, sleep state (if such a state exists)? — Rich
No one is denying the existence of minds. What is being denied is your explanation of what mind is and how it comes to be. — Harry Hindu
If the laws of nature are mystical, then doesn't that make it compatible with religion as religious laws are mystical too. — Harry Hindu
Is philosophy mystical? — Harry Hindu
What do you mean by, "observe"? How does a mind observe a mind? What keeps us from observing other minds? — Harry Hindu
Rich you are a madman — bloodninja
Even if it were an illusion, it would still be something that exists. A mirage is the effect of real processes that are explained in a consistent way.Great. I'm glad nobody is going to call it an illusion anymore. Very happy to hear about this new development. — Rich
It's not just "outside" forces that determine everything. I have an effect on reality as well. You do too. Everyone does. Look at what groups of humans have done in changing the surface of the Earth. Natural Selection is a process of environmental feedback and we are all part of the environment. Natural.Yes. Both phrases/terms refer to some outside mystical force of some type that has determined everything. — Rich
What is the difference between a mystical explanation and a non-mystical explanation? — Harry Hindu
What would be non-mystical then?Mystical would be appeal to some outside forces that are omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, e.g. God and the Laws of Nature. — Rich
That doesn't explain what you mean by "observe", nor how a mind observes itself. You're just going in circles.What do you mean by, "observe"? How does a mind observe a mind? What keeps us from observing other minds? — Harry Hindu
One can observe one's own mind by mediation. One just observes oneself. Other minds after overbearing by the patterns they create, e.g. an artist's painting or a written posting. All are manifestations of mind. — Rich
I have an effect on reality as well. — Harry Hindu
The so-called "mystical' Laws of Nature are those of medicine, of cognitive science, of applied psychology. — Akanthinos
thermodynamics — Akanthinos
The Second Law of Biology: all living organisms consist of membrane-encased cells. — Akanthinos
The Third Law of Biology: all living organisms arose in an evolutionary process. — Akanthinos
What do you mean by an "I" having an effect? This is the question. Determinists stubbornly insist on a rather schizophrenic description of life, using concepts such as "I" and then turning around and denying it as an illusion. I have no problems with anyone choosing to adopt such a position, but why the heck do they insist that others have no choice to adopt a different position? We all have choices on the way we wish to live our lives. That is what life is all about. — Rich
That's not a Law. — Rich
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