• TheMadFool
    13.8k
    From an economic perspective we're the customers and God is the service provider. Shouldn't God be obligated to us rather than us to him?
  • prothero
    429
    Is that so? I have never read Kierkegaard beyond Encyclopedia entries on him. However the story of the significance of Isaac’s sacrifice is not one that I have encountered much in Internet discussions of philosophy of religion.Wayfarer

    https://rectorspage.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/the-binding-of-isaac-two-interpretations/

    "There is an ancient, alternative rabbinic interpretation of the Binding of Isaac that says Abraham fails the test of his faith.[iv] Abraham’s very zeal to follow God makes him delusional, and with a clouded imagination Abraham misunderstands God’s command. In this interpretation, it is not Abraham whose horror grows as Abraham travels up the mountain with Isaac, but God’s. And when God realizes that fevered Abraham is truly about to slay the child of God’s promise, God cries out “Stop!” and stays Abraham’s hand.
    The ancient rabbis then say, beautifully, that God created the ram caught in the thicket at the very dawn of creation and left it there through all time, waiting for Abraham to see in the periphery of his vision, waiting to be Isaac’s salvation. This is another way of saying that God always and forever provides an alternative path to our human tendency to destroy, writ large and writ small, that which is most precious.
    "

    As with many Bible stories perhaps the true meaning is lost in translation and in too literal an interpretation.

    An additional interpretation was an injunction against or the end of human sacrifice in the cultures.

    In any event since the Bible is really a human product written by men seeking God, it is more a reflection of changing human impressions of God than of divine nature itself.
  • Wayfarer
    22.4k
    As with many Bible stories perhaps the true meaning is lost in translation and in too literal an interpretation.prothero

    :up: That's pretty well what I meant when I said that 'it is a story that needs to be interpreted in the context of ancient religious lore, in which the understanding of ‘sacrifice’ was completely, vastly different from our own.'
  • LuckilyDefinitive
    50
    Classic case of man against god one of 12 dilmas that drive every story told through out history, and what is life if not a story told through the eyes of the beholder.
  • wellwisher
    163
    11
    If god created objective morality and that morality requires man to betray his own hedonistic nature, but that nature was also granted by god, how should man behave? I see a conflict here that I can't resolve for myself.

    To use an example, the biblical god told Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac as an offering. I understand this is an extreme example, but for the sake of this discussion I think it should suffice.
    INFJTheist

    In the bible, Satan is not thrown out of Heaven, until Revelations of the New Testament. John, who wrote Revelations, wrote Revelations while in prison decades after the death of Jesus. What that means is Satan was in Heaven during the Old Testament, all the way past Jesus and had influence in heaven and earth. Jesus, the son of God was also sacrificed while Satan was in heaven.

    Satan was God's left hand man in the Old Testament. Satan was the Lord of the Earth. Satan was the CEO of the earth and reported to God. Satan had autonomy to make decisions about humans and the earth.

    Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

    In book of Job, Satan is walking with God, and manipulates God into beating down on Job, to show God that Job is only acting righteous because God gave him a good life. This is a pattern in the bible from the CEO of the earth called Satan. Satan is not a son of God, but he ranks high enough to go to family parties and get togethers. Satan is often mistaken for God in the old Testament due to his rank as CEO.

    When Jesus goes into the wilderness to fast, he is tempted by Satan. One of the temptations was Jesus was offered all the wealth and power of the earth. Jesus does not accuse Satan of lying, since he knew he had this power. Rather he refuses the offer.

    Again, Satan took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

    10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”

    11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

    In the New Testament to the present, God is still mediated through a middleman, Jesus. Satan is still of the earth, due to law, but he lost influence over God. Satan is on his own. The tree of knowledge of good and evil was Satan's tree and symbolized law and morality.
  • BrianW
    999


    The Bible (and all religious/spiritual books and teachings) are subjective. Just because it is written does not mean it is or was. Most of religious/spiritual teachings are symbolic and lose practical significance when taken to be literal. If GOD, as described in the Bible is taken to be literal all the time, then He becomes no more than a tyrant.
  • allan wallace
    19
    One of the many ambiguities that have troubled me over the years is the premise that 'man is created in God's image'.
  • prothero
    429
    I think it is probably the other way around, God is created in man's image (anthropomorphic and anthropocentric). Religion and sacred scriptures are human products. If there is a God the universe is God's playground.
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