• removedmembershiptx
    101
    Alright, I've stated this designation. I have pedophilic disorder, and so, am a pedophile. I'm 31 years old.

    Honestly, it's been difficult to accept being this. Ten years ago, I came out of the closet and was struggling with shedding echoes of religious conditioning and the effects of having what would be my first of many major mental breakdowns from two years earlier. Although coming out did free a part of me, there was still something else I had been suppressing along with it...

    I ended up being psychologically abusive to my boyfriend and at one point even forced falacio on him, and in doing so, effectively raped him.

    After our break up, my paranoia flared up again. The theme the second time around was of being suspected of bloodlust toward my ex and his father, outing him for his sexual orientation and his cousin for having raped him since the age of seven, and being accused of pedophilia since I started going on chat sites flooded with bots looking for them (I was a shut it yet still craved interaction). I wasn't actually looking for youngsters, I actually figured even back then (2013) young kids had better mediums of communicational platforms to chat on (I went to a 90's vibe chat room styled site called Chat Hour).

    In 2015 (I was 27), I tutored a 16 year old in writing a standard five paragraph English essay. I'd say this was my first significant instance of feeling an attraction to a minor. We were alone in his room while I helped him out. Before I knew it, I caught myself asking him to describe his anatomy and if he had already begun engaging in sexual interaction with the girls at his school. I believe this was crossing the line, I even believed it then and the reprimand reverberated in my thoughts as I left his house. That night, I relieved myself thinking of him.

    After that night, I saw him maybe a couple more times to finish up his essay, then, never spoke to him again. I didn't focus on pedophilia after that instant. I went through with age appropriate frivolous sex for another three years.

    By 2018, I had moved around a lot, but, eventually made it back to my hometown. By this point, I became homeless (still am to this day). I met up with some drug cultured homeless gay guys (between the ages of 26 and 30) and tried to have sex with one of them. The next day, he told me if I had managed to penetrate him, it would've in effect been rape, since he was dozing off by the time I was ready to do so.

    My paranoia was reignited. "Am I a rapist?" I asked myself. I began to give up finding solace in the gay community. Instead, I turned to porn and have become quite the addict.

    That's when pedophilic inclinations resurfaced in me. I focus on 18 year olds having sex with 40 and 50 year olds in porn (not technically pedophilia, but the 18 year olds are often role playing, behaving like much younger versions of themselves in a boy-to-daddy way), as well as graphic art of this nature. I now know I'm turned on by this. Being submissive, I'm more turned on by channeling the 18 year old during the sexual act. Nonetheless, it is what it is, a pedophilic fixation.

    I maintain that consent is essential, even in rape fantasies. Still, this is my mind on sex, my euphoria. If it were legal for anyone under 18 to consent to sex with anyone over 18, I'd have no problem with this. However, just because I subjectively think this way doesn't mean I'm going to set out to make my ideal a reality. Over a century ago, there was much corruption surrounding what we now designate as minors, but, if one genuinely wanted to sexually open up back then, it was seen differently (14 year old girls being married off to senior wealthy men, red light districts and the such). I know we no longer live in such times, and do think we are better for it (with the freedom back then came a failure to protect those whom fell prey to being victimized, which was often enough the case). However, you don't have to be an impoverished kid to want to engage in sex merely for survival. But still, even considering all of this, my fixation isn't so unruly that I override law and societal moral to actively seek this out. I sate myself with porn and pornographic comics. My beliefs are more lax than the law and moral, however, but my value of freedom by not breaking it is much more so.

    Under Florida Romeo and Juliet law, I did have sex with an employed drop-out 17 year old when I was 21.

    Should people like me be registered predators even if we abide by the law regardless of our nature?
  • removedmembershiptx
    101
    It seems this post answers Maria's post, "Should some questions in philosophy remain unanswered?"
  • BC
    13.6k
    This is (as you know) a difficult topic to discuss because the range of behaviour covered by the term "sexual predator" is so heavily freighted. Then there is a certain amount of hysteria among the public regarding sexual behaviour among people--regardless of age. There is also the large question of how we develop our object choices in the first place.

    It seems to me that the laws regarding sexual crime and punishment have over-reached and their application is overly punitive. But then, we have quite a few laws that over-reach and are too punitive. Felonies relating to drug use being a good example.

    Sexual relations between adults and youth--heterosexual and homosexual--have occurred regularly in many societies. A lot of people don't distinguish between "pedophilia" (attraction to pre-pubescent children) and "hebephilia" (attraction to pubescent children), or even post-pubescent minors. It wasn't only the Greeks who regularly had relationships between male youth and male adults.

    I don't at all expect it to happen, but I think we need to rethink our ideas about how older youth and adults can relate to each other. "Never!!!" just doesn't conform to reality. From my own gay youth experiences (now in the way-distant past), the principle problem was social inexperience. Sexual naïveté is more easily cured than social naiveté.

    There was (maybe still is) NAMBLA -- North American Man Boy Love Association. This goes back to the 1970s. It was always a lightning rod for conflict in the gay community -- fewer being for it and far more being against it. If memory serves me, their membership was largely pedophile. It is very difficult to make a plausible and supportable case for relationships between pre-pubescent children and adults. Maybe flat-out impossible. Relationships between post-pubescent minors who are otherwise known as "young men" can certainly be rationalised, but these days such theories aren't likely to fly either.
  • BC
    13.6k
    "Who may have sex with whom and with whom one may not" is certainly an addressable philosophical issue.
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    Should people like me be registered predators even if we abide by the law regardless of our nature?THX1138

    I'm not in favor of anyone having to advertise/"register" criminal backgrounds or inclinations period.

    if someone is too dangerous to be around everyday Joes they need to be in a separated population. Otherwise we need to not handicap them with any sort of stigma. This includes former felons. They shouldn't have to disclose that fact when trying to obtain work, for example.
  • removedmembershiptx
    101


    It seems to me that the laws regarding sexual crime and punishment have over-reached and their application is overly punitive. But then, we have quite a few laws that over-reach and are too punitive. Felonies relating to drug use being a good example.Bitter Crank

    I agree. My personal proclivity to what is considered by mainstream standards at this time to range from sexual deviance to heinous predation isn't the only one that is prone to being met with steep stipulation.

    I think it was actually Terrapin Station whom pointed out in another thread (Is it Immoral to do Illegal Drugs?) that the rationalization which excuses the illegality of what is subjectively considered self-destructive drug use -- yet smoking and drinking, two intakes that also take their toll on the Human body and rob it's users of years, optimal health and money -- if we're going to equivocally look at this issue on the grounds of drug law rational many hold and apply it indiscriminately across the table. Proponents of current substance legality are complacent in exceptionalizing smoking and drinking, the rationalization here being that users of tobacco -- and especially alcohol -- aren't overall majority wise as susceptible to abusive use, and that even when they happen to be, it's a fraction of the percentage in comparison to the overall users of "hard" drugs, that the severity of the consequential effects for tobacco and alcohol use are much milder and less destructive to others by proxy (children, spouse, extended family, friends) as well.

    I don't think this is fair though, it's quite selective.



    Terrapin, you also underscored in the morality in the illegal use of drugs that the dangers encouraging even tobacco and alcohol regulation -- like drunk driving and no smoking areas -- is also a bit discriminatory when consider the scope of everything recreationally dangerous out there that can be risky hobbies, yet are left unopposed, maybe like skydiving, flamethrowing, super eating (like pie eating contests; sounds amusing, but hey, it can definitely get to a point of being life threatening).
  • removedmembershiptx
    101


    Sexual relations between adults and youth--heterosexual and homosexual--have occurred regularly in many societies. A lot of people don't distinguish between "pedophilia" (attraction to pre-pubescent children) and "hebephilia" (attraction to pubescent children), or even post-pubescent minors. It wasn't only the Greeks who regularly had relationships between male youth and male adults.Bitter Crank

    This can be deemed as a rationalization by many, it also factual and gives insight of a Human biological tendency (especially male) that transcends culture... a documentable pattern.

    There are many reasons why I may've turned out this way. But, this tendency is a biological phenomenon in our species. It would be inaccurate to reduce it to one thing or the other, misleadingly stereotype the individuals known to experience it in some far placed, kicked box, and dismiss it as such. To me, there's something deeper here, very psychologically subconcious, and from individual to individual, varied in cause. But like you've stated, it's doubtful anyone would want to explore why neutrally. Too much ethos almost always clouds a nonhostile dialogue concerning "why?" from happening.

    In my case, I believe there's more to why individuals would personally hold it against me. I could be found to be unideal, dislikable, "boring," tragically and comically hideous, grotesque, etc. It's far too convienent to make me the most pathetic of the pathetic pedos -- making me a mascot, I believe is the case for those whom are motivated to try to bring me down, grabbing the address of my tastes as their way to do so without seeming ignorant or cruel.
  • removedmembershiptx
    101


    I'm not in favor of anyone having to advertise/"register" criminal backgrounds or inclinations period.

    if someone is too dangerous to be around everyday Joes they need to be in a separated population. Otherwise we need to not handicap them with any sort of stigma. This includes former felons. They shouldn't have to disclose that fact when trying to obtain work, for example.
    Terrapin Station

    Right. Atm, these populations are all thrown in together -- irregardless of the nature of their offenses or their level of hostility -- separated into prisons. Do you personally agree with how this populace is managed? I'd be interested in your take on this.

    As for me, a few cases of heresy has surrounded me in the last two years, but, I'm not intent on violating others' rights. That's always where I draw the line. If the guy I messed around with wants to spread the word that I'm a potential rapist because I tried to penetrate him when he started dozing of, so be it. I wasn't trying to though, I know my intention was simply to have sex, figured it was consensual, apparently not. Either that, or he himself is being quite libel in regretting any sexual interaction with me after the fact and throwing that wrench in in events that happened, which is a pretty duplicitous and damn evil thing to do if you ask me. Anyway, if we're going by the "it only takes once"rule here, I'm already technically a rapist for forcing falacio on my own boyfriend one night. In all of this, I've maintained my candid attitude and duplicity. Of course, that's not good enough for many.

    As for what you mention about records on former felons, I agree. Once they've met their penalty, holding it over them for the rest of their lives, effectively thwarting their chances to be eligible for opportunities based on their talents and durability, is cruel, and unusual punishment.
  • BC
    13.6k
    Re: smoking & drinking... Smoking tobacco, particularly, has been a public health catastrophe in terms of deaths, disability, and illness during the 20th century. Where the percentage of smoking was once not too far from 50% of adults, it is now down to around 15% of adults (in the US). As a result, lower rates of heart disease, lung cancer, and COPD are becoming normal (but not for the 15% still smoking).

    Alcohol addiction has been less of a problem, but one of greater intensity (and shorter duration). Lots of people aren't here anymore because they died of alcohol related accident or disease.

    I'm not quite sure what the current national stats are on drinking and alcohol related disease.

    I used to smoke (24 years ago), used to drink quite a bit (still drink a little), and used to engage in unsafe sex -- which for gay guys in the 1980s was playing with fire. Why do people do these things -- drug use, smoking, drinking, unsafe sex, hang gliding, etc. that have known and fairly high risks? I don't know. I have been more risk tolerant than some people in these areas. In financial matters I'm much more risk averse. Why -- don't know.

    I'm surprised that the morality of using illegal drugs has attracted so much interest. The illegality of cannabis has seemed absurd to many people for a long time. I think opiates and amphetamines are more dangerous, but I don't see them as "immoral". Snorting coke or smoking crack might not be good for a person, but if one uses them occasionally they probably aren't that harmful. (But some people seem predisposed to addiction -- then it becomes a bigger problem for the individual and society.).

    Know one is HIV+ and failing to disclose the fact to unprotected sex partners is morally much more problematic than smoking weed, crack, meth, or shooting up heroin (other factors being equal).

    Gay sex was unambiguously immoral for most people when I was a child. It's taken a good 60 years of concerted efforts on the part of a lot of people to move the consensus to homosexuality being neutral for most people, like it is being heterosexual. (This situation isn't fixed for all time, however. We could always see a back-rolling of progress.)

    Childhood has become highly freighted over the last 100-150 years, or so. Where once children were merely miniature adults, and more or less as durable, they gradually became innocent, precious, and vulnerable to all sorts of potential harm. (Based on the testimony of numerous people in print and in conversation)... many of us who are in our 70s and older can remember a time when children were sent outside to play--whatever that might mean to the children, wherever was available. We weren't supervised, for the most part. Our being gone for two or three hours was not alarming.

    Was the world perfectly safe 70 years ago? No, of course it wasn't. There were plenty of serious risks of getting hit by a car, drowning in a stream, getting poisoned by tasting fruit in the woods, getting bitten by something, falling out of trees, getting into fights, stepping on nails, and experimenting with sex. Were our parents stupid? No, they apparently accepted that children playing on their own would take risks and might get hurt. Sure, we were advised and warned, but children on their own for the afternoon forget the details of good advice.
  • BC
    13.6k
    If the guy I messed around with wants to spread the word that I'm a potential rapist because I tried to penetrate him when he started dozing of, so be it.THX1138

    Next time, wake him up first.

    I've found that sex is usually better if ones partner is awake and involved.
  • removedmembershiptx
    101


    Next time, wake him up first.

    I've found that sex is usually better if ones partner is awake and involved.
    Bitter Crank

    My ex used to wake me up with his... introduction, we'll say, some nights. I didn't find it creepy or rapey at all. Actually, found it to be hot.

    Guess when I was messing around with this douchebag, I was feeling nostalgic and since he had held my head down without asking me beforehand while his fireworks went off (it didn't bother me, also found it hot, so, I don't consider what he did as rape, unlike the consideration he offered me), I thought that was the mode of our interaction that night. Apparently, I was very mistaken.
  • BC
    13.6k
    Some men make a BIG distinction between receiving a blow job from another guy or getting fucked. Receiving a blow job is "getting serviced"; one is only receiving what is due. And he is "on top". Getting fucked, on the other hand, is being made subservient, on the bottom. Big difference for some men between bottom and top. In the older literature on homosexuality going back into the 1950s and earlier, the difference between inserter and insertee, and which position one took--pitcher or catcher in other terminology--top or bottom--was thought to be therapeutically significant. There was more likelihood of a cure for pitchers, tops, and inserters than for catchers, bottoms, or insertees.

    So, in 1972 the APA decided that homosexuality wasn't a disease anymore, and the whole therapeutic business was thrown out. I've had a lot of partners in both positions; I don't think there is any significant difference between tops and bottoms--beyond some guys preferring one or the other.

    Well, after you've received the blow job and you are still in bed with the guy, claiming attempted rape is not convincing. He might have found getting fucked just then an imposition or an inconvenience, but rape... no. Just my opinion.
  • removedmembershiptx
    101


    Well, after you've received the blow job and you are still in bed with the guy, claiming attempted rape is not convincing. He might have found getting fucked just then an imposition or an inconvenience, but rape... no. Just my opinion.Bitter Crank

    Yeah, I'm to the point where I now abstain. I haven't had sex since Christmas day (random hookup; hopefully he doesn't insinuate I raped him too, seems to be a popular thing gay guys in my area now like to do with me, along with making me "gotten" with the finger circle game and pejoratively shouting "OLD." at me. :brow: :roll: ). All I'm trying to do is feel less like a schizophrenic when I interact with gay guys, I end up feeling more like a joke. Seems like gay guys my age are incapable of behaving otherwise decent and kind. It's all about shade and clapbacks. I'm more attracted toward masculine to gender neutral guys, there's nothing about acting this statically full of themselves that even encourages me to put up with the obnoxious antics and inflated airs.

    Thankfully, that's no longer a problem for me. Even when I have the dreadful misfortune of encountering gay guys and gay adjacent jerks and have little in the choice of being made to put up with their behavior, at least I don't feel like a fool for putting myself out there to them, because I no longer am. It's ten times more painful psychologically when I do that. Nothing I can do about being amongst them while shopping for my necessities though.

    To add, I am also attracted to gay guys who are self-possessed and who have the increasingly difficult to find gift of minding their own business being second nature to them. (Being no indirect or passive-aggressive reference to your interaction with me in threads btw, Bitter Crank).
  • BC
    13.6k
    (Being no indirect or passive-aggressive reference to your interaction with me in threads btw, Bitter Crank).THX1138

    It never occurred to me to take it that way.

    Self-possessed people, gay, straight, or otherwise, seem to be harder to come by in general.
  • Pattern-chaser
    1.8k
    Should people like me be registered predators even if we abide by the law regardless of our nature?THX1138

    No, if you abide by the law, then society has nothing to reproach you for. You have followed its rules, and that's all it can (and does) ask of you.
  • yupamiralda
    88


    Maybe you should just shut up, and like, not draw attention to yourself.

    In prison there's a distinction between those who have sex with teenagers and those who have sex with under 12's. It's not only a legal distinction, it's a social distinction among prisoners; at least where I was at, an alright guy who fucked a 15 year old might exist on the fringe of the most powerful group, but somebody who sodomized an 8 year old never would. On the other hand, you're gay, so you'd be dogmeat. Worth keeping in mind if you want to act out your fantasies.

    I'm 37 and attracted to teenage girls, but not exclusively. I'm hot enough I get a lot of searching eyes and looks up and down from them. But I want family, and I want kids, and none of that is going to happen if I'm locked up for kiddy porn or consensual sex with a teenager. Sex isn't everything, and you'll probably figure that out when your testosterone starts fading.
  • removedmembershiptx
    101


    ...there's a distinction between those who have sex with teenagers and those who have sex with under 12's. It's not only a legal distinction, it's a social distinction among prisonersyupamiralda

    ...I want family, and I want kids, and none of that is going to happen if I'm locked up for kiddy porn or consensual sex with a teenager. Sex isn't everything, and you'll probably figure that out when your testosterone starts fading.yupamiralda

    It's not just a social distinction amongst prisoners. As you said, you're "hot", thus, don't give off "creep" vibes. All of this is an exception of subjective conditions (Which you are on the fortunate end of), but, it shouldn't be up to the standards of "Oh, that guy. Just look at him. He makes over 50,000 a year, has a washboard chest and has a likable personality. He can have any woman/girl he wants, so, if he's seen strolling through the neighborhood with a teenager, we won't get worked up or have cause for seeing their association as suspect because worse case scenario, it's consensual and only wrong due to technicality." Don't get me wrong, in a way I'm vicariously happy for you, but my point is, not all of us are extended this consideration. If it were something like I come off as a thief, shady character or even some heartless psychopath, the misconception wouldn't be so bothersome when I go to stores, hop on buses, etc. But I can be doing something as unconnected and self-involved as looking over some onions at the grocery store, and If some kid happens to pass by and pause in my general vicinity for whatever reason, their parents freak out, like it's something I did wrong. On top of that, when you're as antisocial as me (in my case, stoic, disinterested and aloof, not disruptive, domineering nor bellicose) people always give into speculation. I understand why (I do this too, natural for the imagination to try to provide some hypothetical answer for what we don't know and are curious to have insight on), yet, it does take a toll on me, being homeless. I don't think about it all the time, and like you, I'm nonexclusive (I'd say 80% of my sexual are out of this realm; of the 20%, 15% of even that is self fantasizing of my own childhood self. In all cases, the act is always a consensual one). I guess I've just been acutely bothered by it lately.

    On the other hand, you're gay, so you'd be dogmeat. Worth keeping in mind if you want to act out your fantasies.yupamiralda

    A method of intimidation by whatever is never a good reason -- and in the long run, ultimately ineffective -- way to discourage a natural inclination. The reason I don't seek out my rumination is because (to get very specific here), I'm not attracted to minors so much as being attracted to the idea of being a minor again (in turn, being attracted to men between their mid thirties to late fifties, suggesting a pedophilic idealism, but not necessarily a predatory mode of behavior) to feel comfortable with my sexuality, as opposed to you, who may be attracted to a younger-than-18-year-old teen because she's fresh faced, tight skinned, of a small body frame, and has a much greater potential to be less jaded and cynical than other legally dateable chicks.

    My problem is more like GID, except with my age, not gender. Lots of disphoria and body dysmorphia.

    Maybe you should just shut up, and like, not draw attention to yourself.yupamiralda

    The point of discussing this on PF is because this is an open-minded place to have this discussion. How else am I supposed to try to understand what I'm going through and find others whom may shed some profound insight? I don't discuss this openly, publically irl. That would leave me susceptible to all sorts of retaliations instead of understanding and knowing that this doesn't make me a monster. This is a safe space, so, I open up.
  • removedmembershiptx
    101
    Sigh, maybe I shouldn't discuss it here. I'm glad I finally found a place to question my sexuality in a philosophical way. Looking at my posts in general, it's apparent I'm pretty distressed. I don't know If there's a way to archive this thread, but there's no need to keep it going with me. I seem too fixated on the matter, even merging myself self-centeredly in other posts.
  • I like sushi
    4.8k
    I agree with what Pattern Chaser says.

    The question is how you follow your own rules. I imagine some part of you is looking for an excuse to act as you please and another part of you is bravely here to discourage those very thoughts ... we all have to deal with this kind of inner conflict to some degree. Talking about it helps for sure, but at the end of the day you know when you cross the line - even if you often wish to deny it.
  • removedmembershiptx
    101
    The question is how you follow your own rules. I imagine some part of you is looking for an excuse to act as you please and another part of you is bravely here to discourage those very thoughts ... we all have to deal with this kind of inner conflict to some degree. Talking about it helps for sure, but at the end of the day you know when you cross the line - even if you often wish to deny it.I like sushi

    Honestly, I just don't like it being held against me as if it means some part of me is looking for an excuse to act as I please (not using a play on words to throw your point back in your face btw, just trying to effectively convey where I'm coming from here). That's why I don't try to challenge the law by giving into an urge I've never fulfilled in reality anyhow. At the same time, if someone confronted me face to face and point blank asked me if I was a pedophile or had pedophilic ideations, I don't want to feel like a liar all because of how people will take it. I'm not running toward that but I won't run away from it either. That would make me feel like a fraud, and multiply my feelings of hidden shame.

    Otherwise, my life doesn't need to be all about that, but if it comes up, I won't play the deny deny game with people, because that's exactly the kind of thing they would want all along in asking me that question anyway.

    The phrase "perception is reality" seems so spot on in context to this.
  • I like sushi
    4.8k
    Anyway, I wouldn’t class being sexually attracted to someone in their late teens as a sign of potential pedophilia. Prepubescent, THAT is!

    I wouldn’t mix those two up. Either way if the attraction is there I’d certainly look for other paths in life to follow as you say. Sex is just sex. It is more important to some than others and this can be conditioned to a degree.
  • removedmembershiptx
    101
    Anyway, I wouldn’t class being sexually attracted to someone in their late teens as a sign of potential pedophilia. Prepubescent, THAT is!

    I wouldn’t mix those two up. Either way if the attraction is there I’d certainly look for other paths in life to follow as you say. Sex is just sex. It is more important to some than others and this can be conditioned to a degree.
    I like sushi

    My internal attraction is odd. Looking past the age, I realize it's more about the perversion of a dynamic -- a father and son. My dad didn't stick around, that could be a factor, but, so haven't many other men's fathers. I do notice similar unhealthy coping mechanisms by many men whom feel their household was atypical, and develop a devoid feeling. Some becoming serial cheaters, others non-stop sex addicts, S&M, etc. I don't believe that if I am a pedophile, it's for the sake of being a pedophile. There's something internal there that I have to question and discover for myself.
  • I like sushi
    4.8k
    Go seek therapy then. I don’t care about your past and this isn’t the correct forum for this kind of discussion imo. Frankly I’m surprised it’s gone this far.

    Pedophiles are always going to treated with distain in society because, as you know, it is wrong and we all know it. Negative qualities are what people focus on because survival matters - if you’re a murderer or a rapist it’s not going to be something anyone will put aside without serious personal understanding of your situation (and it would have to be due to ignorance and lack of will to even begin to get anyone to view you as something other than an object of distain).

    Bye GL
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    Scary what these primal urges can do to a person or in what trouble they can land him or her in. Hence, why I chose a life of celibacy.
  • Paul
    78
    Should people like me be registered predators even if we abide by the law regardless of our nature?THX1138

    If they abide by the law, then they're not like you. You admitted to raping someone and attempting to rape someone else just in that post, as well as to conducting a highly inappropriate conversation with a minor for whom you were in a trusted position, for the purpose of your gratification. You are the living argument for registration, so that you're not allowed to tutor again.

    Of course, it's impossible to register people for their law-breaking until they've actually been caught and convicted.
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