Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

Gnostic Christian Bishop

Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

https://biblehub.com/matthew/20-28.htm
Even as the Son of man came not to be served, but to serve,

At the end of the day, there is no physical or real supernatural God for us to follow. If there were, then logic and reason say that if such a God wanted to be relevant to man, he would show up.

All there can be are rules and laws that we think a God would give. Men have written up many such sets of rules while lying about being inspired by God. That is basically the moral of the Moses story with his coming off the mountain, not with a God, but with rules and laws.

Man is not slaved to his laws and rules and changes them as better ones are found. We, in effect, are evolving God, defined as rules and laws, and making him better.

All people accept this except for those in religions who idol worship the older barbaric Gods, whose laws are inferior to secular law. That would include the Christian and Muslim demiurges.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship. Faith is a way to quit using your, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes their mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Do you serve God and the laws and rules of life, or do you expect the laws, rules of life and God to serve you?

Regards
DL

PoeticUniverse

Do logic and reason say that God is our servant? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

Not applicable. 'God' hasn't been established. Same for all else layered upon.

RegularGuy

↪Gnostic Christian Bishop

A few questions:

Do you believe that being religious and being a literalist are equivalent?

Are people who see religious myths as valuable and having wisdom religious people?

Do most people who value reason hold beliefs about matters of fact that cannot rise to the level of knowledge?

What is faith?

What is reason?

Gnostic Christian Bishop

Not applicable. 'God' hasn't been established. Same for all else layered upon — PoeticUniverse

That is why I focus on a logical question and not what has no end game.

You took the lazy way out of thinking so why are you even here?

Regards
DL.

Gnostic Christian Bishop

Do you believe that being religious and being a literalist are equivalent? — Noah Te Stroete

No. They are not defined the same way.

Are people who see religious myths as valuable and having wisdom religious people? — Noah Te Stroete

No. There is wisdom in Mother Goose.

Do most people who value reason hold beliefs about matters of fact that cannot rise to the level of knowledge? — Noah Te Stroete

Facts are true knowledge by definition.

What is faith? — Noah Te Stroete

The bible defines it as the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

What is reason? — Noah Te Stroete

Check your favorite dictionary as I am not offering a new definition.

Regards
DL

PoeticUniverse

You took the lazy way out of thinking so why are you even here? — Gnostic Christian Bishop

It can be seen that I am here to note that 'God' is presumed to exist here, with then a request of logic and reason to focus on His 'serving'. To portray 'God' as already being truth and fact is misleading.

Gnostic Christian Bishop

To portray 'God' as already being truth and fact is misleading. — PoeticUniverse

From the O.P.

At the end of the day, there is no physical or real supernatural God for us to follow.

Now I see why you replied as you did. Poor reading comprehension.

Further, I cannot expect my target audience, Christians, to engage on a service issues without using their ideology as a take off point.

Regards
DL

PoeticUniverse

At the end of the day, there is no physical or real supernatural God for us to follow. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

I consider 'God' as highly unlikely, as the lowest form of a 'maybe' that must be accorded. Due to the 'maybe', even if 'God' thought to be a one in a zillion chance, it is dishonest to say/teach/preach that either 'God' or 'no God' is a sure thing of fact and truth.

One can deeper dent into Christians by granting the generious 'maybe' and then challenging their honesty of teaching 'maybe' as a 'truth', as well as noting that further structures built or layered upon don't have an established foundation and so they have effectively now become twice removed, as kind of double and triple 'maybes'. The perceived structure of churches, rules, and a holy book attracts followers, yet, truly, at the end of the day, there is no knowing or showing, but just the wishes and hopes called 'faith' for those so inclined. Church attendance is dropping, as the older believers die off, with the younger generation getting smarter, I suppose.

fresco

You have been flogging gnosticism, both here and elsewhere, for the last couple of years without much 'success'. I put to you that any reliance of gnosticism on 'logic' is ridiculously naive, since logic is philosophically well known to be limited with respect to semantics.

Regarding this particular thread with the simplistic postural assertion about 'God as servant,' have you considered that any concept, from 'rocks' to 'gods' stands or falls on its functional utility to humans who coin it,? i.e. any concept serves human purposes, in terms of psychological and social needs. That includes your usage !

So there's your answer irrespective of any nebulous blather about the ontological status of 'God', you may try to dangle as 'bait' in your continuing self validation exercises.

Gnostic Christian Bishop

with the younger generation getting smarter, I suppose. — PoeticUniverse

Let us pray.

Yours was a good reply. Thanks.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Christian Bishop

have you considered that any concept, from 'rocks' to 'gods' stands or falls on its functional utility to humans who coin it,? — fresco

A false equivalency buddy.

When I look at a rock sliding down the hill at me, I know it is real and will move.

If I should look and see a god, he had better show his intention like the rock did to have me move.

If said god is Yahweh, I would move to kill him for his crimes against humanity.

for the last couple of years without much 'success'. — fresco

I think I have been quite successful and guide many away fro idol worship of a genocidal and infanticidal god.

So there's your answer — fresco

I agree that we created god to serve us.

I could have live without your other speculative nonsense.

If you do not like my style. too bad and go away.

Regards
DL

RegularGuy

Do most people who value reason hold beliefs about matters of fact that cannot rise to the level of knowledge?
— Noah Te Stroete

Facts are true knowledge by definition. — Gnostic Christian Bishop

But matters of fact are not all knowable, for example, whether or not there is a God and what Her nature would be. Do people generally and those who value reason hold a belief about certain or any matters of fact that cannot be proved? I suspect the majority do, and only a minority withhold judgment.

RegularGuy

Matters of fact are put to juries all the time, and they usually cannot be proved. The jury gives a unanimous verdict usually, but none of them know what is really true in many many cases.

fresco

Surely the onus 'to go away,' statistically remains with religious 'crazies' who infest cozy respectable philosophy forums instead of standing on draughty street corners with placards.

Gnostic Christian Bishop

But matters of fact are not all knowable, — Noah Te Stroete

An unknowable assumption.

We have yet to reach a limit. Everything is data, and we cannot store it all, as that would take more matter and energy than the universe can supply. What may be unknowable is who or what the god of the gaps of both religion and science are.

for example, whether or not there is a God and what Her nature would be. — Noah Te Stroete

She would be knowable if she would do a miracle or such.

The fact that she does not speaks to her lack of reality. Just like all the other gods. Her nature would follow ours, of course.

I suspect the majority do, and only a minority withhold judgment. — Noah Te Stroete

I would not ague against subjective view but I would not say a minority. Few would be the word I would use. More like the lunatic fringe.

usually — Noah Te Stroete

Eh. No.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Christian Bishop

↪fresco

For evil to grow and all that buddy.

Regards
DL

fresco

That's a pretty self indulgent assumption !... that you are 'a good man' rather than being merely parasitic on the standard theistic faith of others who also lay claim to 'goodness'. I suggest you face up to the fact that without the psychological palliative and social tunctionality which established that constructed 'God' of others, you would have nothing to say. And since what you say fails to address those psychological and social needs, you are talking to yourself.

fresco

Ah...I seem to remember that gnostics consider themselves to be 'God' (or a manifestation thereof). If so, you presumably have the power to forgive your 'self-indulgence' !.. Great move !

Gnostic Christian Bishop

I forgive mine, just as I forgive you yours here.
That would be more of a god than a God. ;-)
Regards
DL

Do logic and reason say that God is our servant?

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