Why do you think I made that up? — Marchesk
At least I hope so. — Pfhorrest
their existence as a white person was harmful to others
— Marchesk
Why do I doubt that this is what was actually said? — Pfhorrest
One person spoke to all the white people, explaining how it's difficult to acknowledge that their existence as a white person was harmful to others, — Marchesk
This is obviously problematic. But can't we view it as a pendulum type shift? Surely, we can admit that white males have had a massive impact on world history for the last couple hundred years. If society is a mess, who else to blame but those in power (yes, this is rather limited thinking)? While the quote above is BS, it is better than what many women and minorities had to deal with until very recently (or still deal with - and I say "better" because there was still a room full of white employees)...so I just take the hit for now and hope rational minds win out after the persecuted get to persecute for a while. — ZhouBoTong
so I just take the hit for now and hope rational minds win out after the persecuted get to persecute for a while. — ZhouBoTong
It would be better to not have persecution. That won't remedy the injustices of the past, or make current injustices any better. — Marchesk
That's too bad. I've quite a large number of black friends, loved ones, and family members who find it rather odd when white people act more offended by white privilege and racism than they themselves do — creativesoul
"Whiteness as a bad thing" is a horribly racist sentiment. — creativesoul
Some minorities in the meeting were expressing concern that they were going to be subjected to this discussion because white management decided that it needed to happen. I don't know who all was consulted or pushing for this, but if it's just some of the white people, and they form the large majority in an organization, then you are putting the minority employees in an uncomfortable position as well as all the other white people who didn't ask for it. It's real easy to see how this turns into an us versus them. — Marchesk
It does very much sound like that, but to be fair to that position, what is being argued is that the social construction of whiteness as a category is what's been historically racist, and people born into majority white societies implicitly absorb those views when adopting that category. It actually applies to everyone in the society in a way, since the terms white, black, red, yellow, people of color, minority, etc. can all be understood as part of the racial hierarchy society tries to place everyone into. — Marchesk
It's real easy to see how this turns into an us versus them. — Marchesk
Have you consulted any of your black friends/coworkers about the uneasiness of the meeting? Like... What the fuck was that? — creativesoul
It would be better to not have persecution. That won't remedy the injustices of the past, or make current injustices any better. — Marchesk
How about we 'persecute' the right people... and those, like myself, will be glad to join in. Persecute me for things that other whites have done and/or are doing... and you too(whoever 'you' may be) are guilty of the exact same fallacious thoughts as other racists. — creativesoul
You are right that lumping all white people is the same type of problem as lumping all black people (or women or whatever). But I will also point out that being told I am responsible for all of mankind's suffering, isn't nearly as bad as being denied employment, education, or rights. I think you fear that these ideas will come to dominate society (and then could become a problem - whether de facto or de jure) . Wouldn't that be an incredible historical precedent? If a country that is mostly white voted to limit the rights of white people...I am not saying it is impossible, but I am not worried. — ZhouBoTong
My worry is that the root problems underlying racism will continue unabated if we approach this with the same fallacious thinking that constitutes the problem. — creativesoul
All racism needs to be corrected. One cannot correct it if one uses it. — creativesoul
Wait, won't the root problems always exist? — ZhouBoTong
I think in a way it was good that this was put out in this form, rather than simply being implicit. Because then it can be dealt with. I have sympathy for that feeling and if I'd been black, I'd probably feel that way at times. But if that is a position. IOW considered a factual statement, in its universal, general form, then there is no discussion.their existence as a white person was harmful to others, — Marchesk
I will not go as far as saying "we should use racism to combat racism"...but since I have not seen any great examples as to how to end racism, I am not immediately offended by the attempt. — ZhouBoTong
Anyone who assumes that and considers it a fact and a basis for a meeting is confused, about themselves, because the only thing a white person can do with that is feel permanent guilt and shame or end their existence. It is not a basis for improving things. — Coben
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