There are many who can and would free you. I suggest that while there is an echo of truth in what you wrote, the better and more accurate statement is that you're the one that keeps yourself imprisoned. And of course there are many who are each proud of his or her prison and won't be pried out of it. And these not to be confused with those who make free choices based in freedom. Life is adaption to constraint, which can be done in freedom.I am the only one who can free [my]self. — Merkwurdichliebe
Yes. Life is hard for the protestor. Lenin had to ride a train all the way across europe to get to Russia in time to kill the czar. They say he was in bad mood when he got home. — frank
Are you going to get vaccinated? — frank
Do you think that if a person died in a car crash, and they had previously tested positive for Covid-19, their death would be counted as a Covid-19 death? — Metaphysician Undercover
an attempt at downplay. — jorndoe
If their recovery was in any way hampered by Covid-19 (even having had it) then it would form part of the chain of events leading to death (the other being the car crash injuries) and so it would form part of the Covid-19 statistics, yes. — Isaac
But just pointing that out that the issue of 'excess deaths' is consequently complicated by by this decision is not in the least bit reminiscent of Trump's nonsense. Partisanship in politics is one thing, but when millions of people are dying or at risk of dying what we need is good data and dispassionate analysis, not mob rule shutting down any discussion not totally on board with the Hollywood version of this disaster movie. — Isaac
The decision to count all listings of Covid involvement as a Covid death was a perfectly rational one, and a good idea, in my view, but subsequently pointing out that the result of this decision is that the statistics, particularly related to excess deaths caused by policy responses, needs to be treated with caution is not — Isaac
The over-counting of deaths goes even further than Ezeke and Birx suggested because most U.S. states (including Illinois) include in their Covid-19 death tally anyone who has tested positive for the virus at any point prior to death.
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2) most states go even further and include anyone who tested positive for the virus at any time and then died, whether or not they actually had Covid-19 or were an asymptomatic carrier;
The person died "in" a car crash, not in a hospital. — Metaphysician Undercover
The article doesn't mention any judgement of a "chain of events". — Metaphysician Undercover
Did you read the article? It seems to have been written with a very bias slant, to me. The way they suggest that Covid deaths ought to be recounted to exclude a whole bunch as illegitimate seems very similar to the way that Trump suggests votes ought to be recounted. — Metaphysician Undercover
No one is "shutting down any discussion". — Metaphysician Undercover
the thing which Trump is complaining about, a presidential election, seems to be a lot more important than the other thing, number of Covid deaths, which is just statistics used for models. — Metaphysician Undercover
This does not even address the authors claim of "90% or more effective false positives" in "various types" of testing. I don't know which agencies would be using different types of testing which are known to give results with more than ninety percent of the positives being false positives. — Metaphysician Undercover
I can only respectfully disagree. For me, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, but for me, wearing masks as prescribed is a little too close to wearing tinfoil hats to block out all the radiowaves penetrating your skull.
There are millions of healthy people wearing masks, not because they are sick and risk infecting someone, but because they are ignorant of whether they are sick or not. — NOS4A2
There's a post mortem which will still try to establish the cause of death. If the person in the car died from their injuries at the scene and one excaserbating factor was a covid infection then it would be listed as a covid death. We're talking unlikely circumstances at this stage, but it would be recorded the way the article describes, and for good reason too. — Isaac
In that they're both asking for a recount? Surely the significant factor in Trump's actions is that he's asking for legitimate votes to be discounted. The legitimacy of the picture presented by the statistics for the job at hand is what matters, not the superficial resemblance anyone making such a request shares. — Isaac
It doesn't invalidate the consequences the author highlights on the counting of non-covid excess deaths. — Isaac
It's pretty much uncontested that policies designed to reduce deaths from covid will cause a rise in deaths from other causes. — Isaac
There's a post mortem which will still try to establish the cause of death. If the person in the car died from their injuries at the scene and one excaserbating factor was a covid infection then it would be listed as a covid death. We're talking unlikely circumstances at this stage, but it would be recorded the way the article describes, and for good reason too. — Isaac
But the article says it would be recorded as a Covid-19 death even if Covid-19 wasn't an exacerbating factor. That's a big difference. — Metaphysician Undercover
Since then changes have been made to include epidemiological evidence that Covid -19 was indeed an exacerbating factor.The way we count deaths in people with COVID-19 in England was originally chosen to avoid underestimating deaths caused by the virus in the early stages of the pandemic.
concerns [were] raised by academics from the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine about the original measure, which counted anyone who had ever tested positive as a COVID-associated death.
the numbers of deaths in people who have tested positive have become substantially greater than the numbers of deaths subsequently registered as COVID-19 deaths by the ONS, which is why we are now changing our approach to reporting deaths — PHE
exaggerated, deceptive, and arguably false — Metaphysician Undercover
It's pretty much uncontested that policies designed to reduce deaths from covid will cause a rise in deaths from other causes. — Isaac
Actually I think this is a very dubious statement. — Metaphysician Undercover
These figures might support a contention that the measures being taken to deal with covid-19 may be having a negative effect on other causes of death, particularly other respiratory causes — BMJ
Since the week ending June 26 there have been more non-coronavirus deaths registered above what would usually be expected in private homes than deaths registered involving Covid-19 — Office for National Statistics
Even temporary disruptions can cause long-term increases in TB incidence and mortality. If lockdown-related disruptions cause a temporary 50% reduction in TB transmission, we estimated that a 3-month suspension of TB services, followed by 10 months to restore to normal, would cause, over the next 5 years, an additional 1⋅19 million TB cases (Crl 1⋅06–1⋅33) and 361,000 TB deaths (CrI 333–394 thousand) in India, 24,700 (16,100–44,700) TB cases and 12,500 deaths (8.8–17.8 thousand) in Kenya, and 4,350 (826–6,540) cases and 1,340 deaths (815–1,980) in Ukraine. The principal driver of these adverse impacts is the accumulation of undetected TB during a lockdown. — The potential impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the tuberculosis epidemic a modelling analysis - The Lancet
Why would you just prima facie disbelieve this? — Isaac
Since then changes have been made to include epidemiological evidence that Covid -19 was indeed an exacerbating factor. — Isaac
What's interesting here is not the facts themselves, which are as indisputable as it gets, but the way in which, without even researching the article's sources, you've already assume it is — Isaac
but you carry on with your preferred narrative, don't let any of these tricky complications... — Isaac
And you confirmed that you also believed, as I do, that the reporting practice was not as stated in the article, — Metaphysician Undercover
concerns [were] raised by academics from the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine about the original measure, which counted anyone who had ever tested positive as a COVID-associated death.
OK, so at the beginning of the pandemic, when there was only a few people in the population of a given country who tested positive already, there was even less people who tested positive and died. The practice of counting everyone who tests positive and dies would produce a very small number of mistakes, even if it might have been a somewhat significant percentage of the overall count, at that time. — Metaphysician Undercover
relative to the overall numbers, the mistakes reported at the beginning when there was a very small number, are very insignificant, constituting a very small percentage of the overall numbers. — Metaphysician Undercover
By "tricky complications" you really mean deceptive speak. — Metaphysician Undercover
If you're going to be that flippant about nearly half a million excess deaths then there's no point talking to you. — Isaac
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