Is this not enough struggle to fill a man's heart?

Do you think the existence of 1 + 2 above in today's society makes it impossible to fill your heart with the struggle itself? — living-sisyphus

If Sisyphus was a Stoic or Buddhist, he might just focus on the job at hand --- rolling the rock --- and not worry about the secondary issue of keeping it at the top of the hill. The practice of Mindfulness may not bring ecstatic "peak experience" happiness, but it could allow enduring contentment : Shantih = peace.

Thanks for your replies.

I can be very content carrying out a mundane/futile/meaningless task (the struggle), without worrying about trying to achieve something productive (i.e. keeping the rock at the top of the hill).

However, the contentment vanishes when some smartypants suggests a better way to carry out the task. Similarly, in the modern 'To-Do List' scenario of having an almost limitless choice of tasks to perform - i.e. I'm not being compelled to simply roll the rock up the hill, the contentment is lost also. Both scenarios are tied up with the modern obsession of maximising efficiency.

So, I can agree with Albert Camus' conclusion that 'One must imagine Sisyphus happy', but only assuming the absence of (a) people and (b) choice.

Is that a fair summary?

It does not require the absence of choice, (there is always choice), it only requires the choice that that is the best thing to do.

This is the Albert Camus' paradox. He paints a picture of humanity as a Sisyphean struggle, overtly miserable, and then asks you to imagine that we should be happy. We can only be as happy as Sisyphus and we know he wasn't.

Is it that you're suggesting contentment does not require the absence of choice? I agree that there is always choice. However, Camus chose a fictional myth to make his point i.e. Sisyphus was forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill - implying an artificial lack of choice.

I'm thinking that (one reason) we must imagine Sisyphus happy because he was not burdened by choice. With choice, as you mention, we can only be happy if we're super-confident that our choice happens to be the best thing to do. However, there is always doubt that you've chosen the right thing. And there's always someone saying that you're doing the wrong thing.

What do you think?

That's interesting! Did Camus admit to this paradox? As far as I read it, he was suggesting that - having acknowledged the absurdity of his situation (analogous to, lets say, being stuck in a boring/meaningless office job) - Sisyphus reaches a state of contented acceptance. I suspect this state would be somewhat different from him trying to imagine (i.e. fool himself) that he is happy, when he knows he's not.

Is that state of contented acceptance something that people have actually experienced? ...and is it possible to experience this when you have doubts about having chosen the right thing to do (at any point in time) and the right way to do it?

That's interesting! Did Camus admit to this paradox? As far as I read it, he was suggesting that - having acknowledged the absurdity of his situation (analogous to, lets say, being stuck in a boring/meaningless office job) - Sisyphus reaches a state of contented acceptance. I suspect this state would be somewhat different from him trying to imagine (i.e. fool himself) that he is happy, when he knows he's not.

Is that state of contented acceptance something that people have actually experienced? ...and is it possible to experience this when you have doubts about having chosen the right thing to do (at any point in time) and the right way to do it? — living-sisyphus

The paradox becomes more complex when we consider your comments in the context of Camus' Sisyphus. Sisyphus is Sisyphus precisely because he's neither happy nor content. For Camus to then ask him to be happy and/or content is to ask for something that to many would be extremely difficult if not impossible. It seems that in asking us to imagine Sisyphus happy, Camus is himself rolling the boulder of our perpetual disappointment up his own private hill.

However, there's some sense in which Camus is right on the money. Just flip the image of Sisyphus. Instead of being burdened with the extremely dull and strenuous task of rolling the boulder uphill only for it to roll down so that Sisyphus is trapped in a time loop for eternity, imagine Sisyphus is a happy child whose favorite game is to roll boulders down a hill, and every time the boulder reaches the bottom, he happily pushes it uphill for the next round. Sisyphus is happy to play his favorite game [forever].

Is it that you're suggesting contentment does not require the absence of choice? — living-sisyphus

Yes the achievement of contentment requires making good choices.

However, there is always doubt that you've chosen the right thing. And there's always someone saying that you're doing the wrong thing. — living-sisyphus

It is not a matter of right or wrong choices, it is a matter of making the best choices as they seem at the time and then learning from their consequences; life moves ever onwards.

Is that state of contented acceptance something that people have actually experienced? ...and is it possible to experience this when you have doubts about having chosen the right thing to do (at any point in time) and the right way to do it? — living-sisyphus

Yes. "Acceptance" is a basic doctrine of Buddhism and of Stoicism. In meditation, if doubts arise, you simply observe them non-judgmentally and allow them to fade away. A key to Acceptance & Contentment is the counter-intuitive notion of Non-self. If Sisyphus could reach Nirvana, his struggle to reach the top of the hill would be over.

I am neither Buddhist nor Stoic in any official sense, but my BothAnd philosophy is based on acceptance of what you have no control over. It's not fatalistic, but simply realistic. Some people imagine that they have more power over the outside world than they actually do. All you can control is yourself, and even then to a small degree. But it does you no good to stress about the lack of control, unless you have a way to gain control. For example, some Buddhist monks are said to be able to control involuntary body functions. But it would be sufficient if most of us could just control our primitive urges and feelings in modern stressful situations. :smile:

The Buddha said, “Contentment is the greatest wealth.”