There is no evidence for the existence of someone who looked like Jesus during his time thus making it highly unlikely. — Josh Vasquez
But what about the resurrection? — Josh Vasquez
1. If the apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ, then they must have had intense belief.
2. Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence.
3. The apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ.
4. Therefore, the apostles must have had sufficient evidence for their intense belief. (MP 1,3) — Josh Vasquez
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish — Hume
What is more likely, that the laws of nature has been suspended in your favor, or that you've made a mistake — Hitchens
Extraordinary proof requires extraordinary evidence — Sagan
Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence. — Josh Vasquez
1. If the apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ, then they must have had intense belief.
2. Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence. — Josh Vasquez
1. If the apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ, then they must have had intense belief. — Josh Vasquez
Whether they did or not, other people certainly do. But of what value is belief as constitutive of knowledge of a fact? Answer: none, zero, and less than zero.No one can deny that the apostles believed Jesus resurrected, but that begs the question on what basis do they have this belief? — Josh Vasquez
Really? Certainly that can happen. But the right proposition is that some intense belief may be....2. Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence. — Josh Vasquez
1) If the Muslim terrorist (or any terrorist) is willing to be martyred for the sake of Allah/Islam, then they must have intense belief.1. If the apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ, then they must have had intense belief.
2. Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence.
3. The apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ.
4. Therefore, the apostles must have had sufficient evidence for their intense belief. (MP 1,3) — Josh Vasquez
2. Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence. — Josh Vasquez
2. Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence. — Josh Vasquez
“Sōma pneumatikos” in 1 Corinthians 15:44 — Josh Vasquez
1:3-4 — Josh Vasquez
However, it is entirely possible that the apostles were irrational and had intense belief without sufficient evidence — Josh Vasquez
1. If the apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ, then they must have had intense belief.
2. Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence.
3. The apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ.
4. Therefore, the apostles must have had sufficient evidence for their intense belief. (MP 1,3 — Josh Vasquez
If this is right... and this is right too, something is wrong about their faith. — Gus Lamarch
But that is open to interpretation, as everything in the Bible is. — Gus Lamarch
Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Isn't it a miracle? But, perhaps it is not, and someone here knows one ruling system in the least (in the past or now) that asks its subjects to love their enemies and not applying its justice on the evil and on the unjust. — KerimF
It's very odd to me to characterise Jesus' teachings as a ruling system. — Echarmion
But is your argument that teaching harmony and kindness was not only unprecedented at the beginning of the common era, but also not repeated? While Jesus' commitment to unconditional love might have been revolutionary, there were certainly thinkers before and after him that were similarly interested in peaceful coexistence. — Echarmion
1. The apostles of Jesus Christ believed that Jesus Christ physically resurrected from the dead.
2. If the Apostles had no evidence to base their belief off of, then their belief is irrational.
3. There is evidence on which the Apostles based their belief.
4. Therefore, the Apostles’ belief is rational. — Josh Vasquez
1. Jesus Christ either physically resurrected from the dead or he did not.
2. If Jesus Christ didn’t physically resurrect, then there must be alternate hypotheses / theories that
explain the Apostles belief
3. All other alternate hypotheses / theories fail in comparison to the physical resurrection hypothesis
4. Therefore, the explanation for the Apostle’s rational belief in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is that
Jesus Christ physically resurrected — Josh Vasquez
We also have no evidence that the apostles were very rational people. — Philosophim
I’m not quite sure how you could make that claim when they were the ones who propagated and kept the faith alive and well through the church. — Josh Vasquez
Didn’t the apostle Paul write his letters? — Josh Vasquez
Were the gospel writers not more closely associated to Jesus and his disciples than us? — Josh Vasquez
doesn’t that mean something is wrong with the faith of one who disagrees with them? — Josh Vasquez
History is a matter of fact and facts are not up for interpretation because that would go against the very nature of them being facts. Now there are certain books that I do believe could be up for interpretation such as the Psalms, Proverbs, Songs of Solomon, and Ecclesiastes but that is because these books were written as wisdom literature or poetry. The gospels of Jesus Christ and the letters in the New Testament are not genres that can be interpreted as one pleases. — Josh Vasquez
From Gary R. Habermas’ and Michael R. Licona’s The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus:
“In [1 Corinthians] 2:14-15… Paul contrasts the natural and spiritual man, i.e., the unsaved man who is lead by his soulish or fleshly nature and the Christian who is led by the Holy Spirit. Now these are the same two words Paul employs in [1 Corinthians] 15:44 when, using the seed analogy, he contrasts the natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) body.”
Thus, when Paul speaks of the spiritual body, he is speaking of someone who’s spirit is being led by the Holy Spirit as opposed to its own selfish desire. According to scripture it seems as if when someone resurrects it is both a spiritual and physical resurrection. — Josh Vasquez
Quoting Pliny the Younger about how the Romans viewed the young Christian church:
"Roman investigations into early Christianity found it an irreligious, novel, disobedient, even atheistic sub-sect of Judaism: it appeared to deny all forms of religion and was therefore superstitio." — Gus Lamarch
This was and remains one of the great problems of Christianity. Jesus left nothing written, so what we have is the individual interpretation of the apostles. — Gus Lamarch
Each person can examine Christian suggestions for themselves, try out those suggestions which engage them, and then come to their own conclusions regarding the value of those suggestions. It doesn't really matter who wrote the suggestion, or when they wrote it, or if they actually wrote it, or whether the suggestion is a misinterpretation of someone else's ideas, or any of that. If one can set aside authority worship and do one's own homework, then every person one meets can be one's teacher. — Hippyhead
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