Who cares what Paul said? Paul is dead, and nobody will ever know for sure what he said or what he meant. He may not have been clear about what he meant himself, who knows?
There are some words by somebody on some page. If we can use them, then use them — Hippyhead
Thank you... I didn't imagine that such description of Christianity could be said in the far past — KerimF
I think your point about St Paul's talk of the spiritual body is something that a lot of Christians do not take on board fully. Many seem to exaggerate the importance of a physical resurrection. — Jack Cummins
The only thing I would say is that I am not sure that there is a complete difference between the physical and spiritual bodies, but more a gradation of density. There is recognition of this in quantum physics with a recognition of physical matter being energy.
This would give a potential for understanding of a resurrection body and similar matters. In particular, the transfiguration in the Bible may indicate the blurry edges of reality.
Perhaps the whole for and against the resurrection of Jesus could be transcended if we acknowledge the limitations of classical understandings of reality, opening up to a vision of multidimensional reality. — Jack Cummins
I can assure you that 90% of people know nothing about history, let alone about the history of the Church. Therefore, it is not surprising that you were also unaware of these facts. — Gus Lamarch
Therefore, in my precious post, saying that I wasn't aware of how Christianity was described by early Romans was just a sort of a soft introductory to describe my 'actual' Christianity that no Christian Church or Denomination in the world approves. On your side, you were interested in my introduction and said nothing about what came next :) — KerimF
decided not to comment because they are points about your personal interpretation of Christianity, something that has nothing to do with the initial proposal of the OP. :grin: — Gus Lamarch
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/461664)while all formal systems (religious or political) around the world don't allow preaching OPENLY (via satellites for example) many Jesus teachings 'as clear as he did', no one of them dares considering the printing of the Gospel (as hard copies or eBooks) as a crime that deserves punishment. — KerimF
1. If the apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ, then they must have had intense belief.
2. Intense belief must be backed by equally sufficient evidence.
3. The apostles were willing to be martyred for the sake of Christ.
4. Therefore, the apostles must have had sufficient evidence for their intense belief. (MP 1,3) — Josh Vasquez
To me in the least, the resurrection of Jesus' body is not as miraculous as the resurrection of Jesus message that contradicts the human instincts of survival, hence the man-made law of any ruling system around the world.
Please note that any reader here, deist or atheist, is not familiar with what I will say.
The day Jesus was condemned to death there was not even ONE person in the world who dared saying he believes him or in him. In fact, Jesus knew how to let even Peter "his Rock" deny him 'three' times on that day (it wasn't a mere coincidence that Peter only used his sword, soon after Judas kissed Jesus). And, by Peter clear reaction (3 times, not just once or twice), Jesus made very clear that, on that day, both his body and teachings (message) died on the cross (not his body only).
But this wasn't enough. — KerimF
Then, even after 2000 years (thru too many generations), I hear Jesus saying:
Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Isn't it a miracle? But, perhaps it is not, and someone here knows one ruling system in the least (in the past or now) that asks its subjects to love their enemies and not applying its justice on the evil and on the unjust.
Yes, while all formal systems (religious or political) around the world don't allow preaching OPENLY (via satellites for example) many Jesus teachings 'as clear as he did', no one of them dares considering the printing of the Gospel (as hard copies or eBooks) as a crime that deserves punishment.
Yes, this is a 'fact' that the world lives while it is beyond human logic... In other words, it is a living miracle that no one, even atheists, can deny — KerimF
Christ's life, death, passion and resurrection is a fact. His resurrection alone had more witnesses than Caesar's murder. Of course, for those who have no faith, not all the miracles in the world will convince. — hithere
Christ's life, death, passion and resurrection is a fact. His resurrection alone had more witnesses than Caesar's murder. Of course, for those who have no faith, not all the miracles in the world will convince. — hithere
It is to be expected — Gus Lamarch
I cannot understand how you can see the existence of Christianity as a miracle. — Gus Lamarch
while all formal systems (religious or political) around the world don't allow preaching OPENLY (via satellites for example) many Jesus teachings 'as clear as he did' — KerimF
But the period of time for which they hid is 40 days, not 30 or 50 :)
These 40 days have their particular meaning anywhere on earth. — KerimF
The formal religious systems, I am referring to, are also all well-known Christian Churches and Denominations in the world.
By the way, I was ignored (if not worse) in all Christian forums I heard of and joined, anytime I referred to what Jesus says (on their own Gospel!) about a certain subject, instead of what their doctrine says.
But, I also understand that my point here could not be clear to you. Perhaps, you didn't have the time or interest to notice the few but crucial contradictions between Jesus sayings and the teachings of any Christian Church. After all and truth be said, if they preach openly Jesus sayings exactly as Jesus does on the Gospel, a formal Church won't have the chance to survive for long (due to lack of serious donations). So they used reviving Judaism to hide what they like ignoring in Jesus sayings. — KerimF
The neo-atheist mods would ban the thread. Not worth discussing here. — hithere
Uh... no. They don't care about knowledge that it is against their preconceived beliefs, and also don't mind censoring. The lack of interest in getting to know miracles, on the part of people who nevertheless express their opinions about Christianity, reveals that these people prefer to know only the edges of the subject of which they speak, for fear of getting too close to the center and being singed. The fact that the forum has philosophy in its name is a comic pretension and inversion. — hithere
When you start to have individual interpretations of the message of Christ, it is no longer Christianity, but Gnosticism — Gus Lamarch
I bet you didn't like hearing me say: "the science I know...". Well, even about scientific knowledge, I had the chance to discover things that the world (at the universities in the least) is not aware of. But, at the same time, many other persons in the world had also the chance to know things that, in my turn, I am not aware of.
So while in speeches we talk about absolute 'science', actually and speaking practically, many people, as individuals or groups, have their 'own' knowledge of science from which they, unlike others, can take advantage of it in their own projects.
By the way, ANY new discovery starts from ONE person only who knew it. Then, how it will be seen by others as useful, harmful or even non-sense is another question — KerimF
Being a man of reason, I don't have faith in the first place. — KerimF
The neo-atheist mods would ban the thread. Not worth discussing here. — hithere
Whoever possesses the strongest gun in a room has the legitimate right to impose his truth on all ones in his room — KerimF
The question of whether Christianity is good or not, useful or not, does not come into question, as it is not the issue being discussed. — Gus Lamarch
Then you're lost, because even science is dependent on faith. — Gus Lamarch
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