But for me it doesn't have to be an all or nothing, as I believe that compatibilism is possible. — A Ree Zen
What if the person has no preference? How can she possibly chose then? — Olivier5
's an old thought experiment. What would happen to a donkey (Buridan's ass) asked to chose between two equally desirable options, such as two equal bags of barley? If your theory is correct, it should be unable to chose and die of hunger — Olivier5
No donkey in this world will ever let itself die of hunger because it is faced with two equally attractive bags of barley. It would just go straight to whatever bag. Trust me on this. — Olivier5
You must not have spent much time with donkeys in your life. — Olivier5
Any donkey out there is able to chose between two equivalent options in a nanosecond — Olivier5
even the people who like green more than red press red once in a while. It’s not like all of them will chose to press their favorite color for the entire damn test. — Olivier5
It's the circumstances you're placing it in that I'm claiming is impossible. — Isaac
How would you know a) that the options are exactly equivalent in every way, and b) that the donkey correctly perceives that they are? — Isaac
is that in life, one frequently encounters a certain type of situation, where one needs to make a choice in a limited amount of time (e.g. one doesn't want another donkey to eat one's barley), and yet the options appears equally valuable — Olivier5
People chose stuff at random all the time. Donkeys too. — Olivier5
Intuitively, I don't think one could ever present me with two options identical in every way, — Isaac
This is something that does demonstrably happen. — Olivier5
Otherwise how would they chose a plum, do you think? — Olivier5
mine is much much simpler: we just pick plums at random. — Olivier5
We've seen that already with Buridan's ass: sometimes one cannot determine which option is nearest, it's impractical or impossible.Nearest to their hand is one option. — Isaac
Of course it's a preference, one that in the circumstances says something like: "I must not appear picky or distrustful by looking at all the plums closely or by hesitating. Given the circumstances, choosing at random is my best option."How is not wanting to appear impolite not a preference? — Isaac
You're afraid to commit? To what? The idea of randomness?You have to now commit yourself to the existence of a mental mechanism for initiating random action, the alternative uses mechanisms we already know exist. — Isaac
You're afraid to commit? To what? The idea of randomness? — Olivier5
You know what I find hard to commit to?... — Olivier5
Of course not. If this simple and mechanistic view of yourself suffice to account for your experience, you're more than welcome to hold on to it.I've no reason to commit to the idea of this process existing, have I? — Isaac
I experience, personally, a capacity to choose options at random. — Olivier5
Within this view, it would be simplistic in the extreme to assume that we have one single procedure for making choices, one single logical process that works under every and all circumstances. — Olivier5
More precisely, I expect my theories about my neurological processes to give an accurate account of my experience. If a theory doesn’t fit with the facts, it must be rejected or improved upon.So do you universally trust your experience to give you an accurate account of your neurological processes, — Isaac
There are fours arteries entering the brain, two carotides and two cervical, all connected inside the brain so they work with and even up one another.We have only one process for delivering oxygen to the brain, — Isaac
Initiation? You mean explaining mechanism? Because you also need a process of comparing preferences with one another.we need not impute any other factors than preference when looking to their initiation. — Isaac
More precisely, I expect my theories about my neurological processes to give an accurate account of my experience. If a theory doesn’t fit with the facts, it must be rejected or improved upon. — Olivier5
We have only one process for delivering oxygen to the brain, — Isaac
There are fours arteries entering the brain, two carotides and two cervical, all connected inside the brain so they work with and even up one another. — Olivier5
Initiation? You mean explaining mechanism? — Olivier5
you also need a process of comparing preferences with one another. — Olivier5
And as any process, this comparison can fail to provide usable information... HENCE it stands to reason that it needs a backup. — Olivier5
Of course I have free will: I make choices! Why is this even a question?" But as we think about it longer, it becomes more clear that we decide less. — A Ree Zen
I experience, personally, a capacity to choose options at random. — Olivier5
Is there a difference between thinking one has free will because the system is so complex we cannot perceive the factors that contribute to determinism; and actually having free will? — Roy Davies
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