ask 180 Proof about how pessimism is the only realistic attitude to adopt.
— TheMadFool
Dear 180 Proof,
How is pessimism the only realistic attitude to adopt? — praxis
Surely that would vary with each individual. Not having experienced what others do, and having only anecdotal evidence of a vanishingly tiny fraction of humanity's experience, how could you possibly justify such a claim? — Janus
How is pessimism the only realistic attitude to adopt? — praxis
Pessimist or Realist? — Roy Davies
While not claiming to speak for any Buddhist....
My take is that Buddhism is an experience which transcends philosophy and religion. The philosophy and religion parts are props people are using to try to talk themselves in to the experience.
The same might be said for Christianity for example. Jesus said, "Die to be reborn". Die is a verb which suggests an act of surrender. An act. An experience. All the other junk piled on top of that is supposed to help people make their way to the experience, though I'm guessing the piled on junk is as much obstacle as asset. — Hippyhead
Do you consider other alternatives? It's still possible that religion was based on a philosophy for example. Secular Buddhism is a good argument in favor of this idea. All books were written long after Buddha's death after all. — Skeptic
To the three of you: I'll attempt a simple proof of why we should be pessimists and why life is suffering. — TheMadFool
The practice of Buddhism can find appeal only when its core tenets make sense. At least that's how Buddhism is advertised - as a completely rational philosophy/religion based on hard facts. — TheMadFool
Perhaps a tangent, but it depends on the order and also the degree. Chaos is a generally a pejorative term and order generally is considered a positive term, especially with no context. But spontenaity, surprises, new experiences, diversity, non-repetitiveness, variation could all be called chaos by someone who wants everything to be strictly patterned with no unexpected experiences. And most dystopias have as their central problem too much order. In fact the move from rigid societies, where one was born into both permanent class and profession, where there was a tiny range of behavioral options and tremendous pressure to conform, to modern society with much less order, more variation, wider ranges of behavioral options, is often seen as positive. That we are moving in a direction towards something more life enhancing. We wants elements of expected and repeated events and behavior AND we want variation, change, surprises.Happiness is, by and large, associated with order and sorrow with chaos. — TheMadFool
Is this you summarizing the Buddhist argument? — Coben
There is a saying in Buddhist (or zen? I don’t remember) circles “If you see the Buddha by the road, shoot him” which just basically means don’t just follow authorities blindly. — khaled
The closest western field to Buddhism and Co is I think psychoanalysis. Both try to describe what goes on in the mind starting from the mind, rather than to try doing it starting from how the world works. — khaled
Perhaps a tangent, but it depends on the order and also the degree. Chaos is a generally a pejorative term and order generally is considered a positive term, especially with no context. But spontenaity, surprises, new experiences, diversity, non-repetitiveness, variation could all be called chaos by someone who wants everything to be strictly patterned with no unexpected experiences. And most dystopias have as their central problem too much order. In fact the move from rigid societies, where one was born into both permanent class and profession, where there was a tiny range of behavioral options and tremendous pressure to conform, to modern society with much less order, more variation, wider ranges of behavioral options, is often seen as positive. That we are moving in a direction towards something more life enhancing. We wants elements of expected and repeated events and behavior AND we want variation, change, surprises. — Coben
Reality, entropy given due consideration, actually stacks the odds against us, making it almost a foregone conclusion that life will not be as enjoyable an experience as one would've liked or hoped.. — TheMadFool
In psychoanalytics, people are treated like animals and are trained like them using positive and negative reinforcement and other tricks of the trade. In Buddhism a person's higher faculty - reason - is tapped, arguments are presented for examination, and people are encouraged to think and decide how to behave — TheMadFool
rather than practise a particular behavior until it becomes a habit like in psychoanalytics. — TheMadFool
Stoicism — khaled
East [and West] — khaled
massive void — khaled
At least I don't think it's about training people like animals anymore rather it is about explaining to them how their minds worked, and what they should do to deal with whatever issue they are having. — khaled
Medidation — khaled
Buddhism seems to stick out like a sore thumb on that score. — TheMadFool
The main point of Buddhism is that belief in it is never dogmatic. — khaled
There is a saying in Buddhist (or zen? I don’t remember) circles “If you see the Buddha by the road, shoot him” which just basically means don’t just follow authorities blindly. — khaled
needs to be put under the microscope. — TheMadFool
Buddhism seems to be both a Religion for the masses, and a Philosophy of life for the few. Admonished by his critique of their current decadent society, his earliest followers (Bikkhu) simply withdrew from society to become navel-gazing monks. But over time, some of his disciples became evangelical, and spread the "word" throughout Asia. And that "word" eventually became doctrine and dogma. The Buddha's simple rules for living a good life eventually became entangled with local traditional religious notions, deities, and demons. Thus, a philosophy of individual morality evolved into formalized religious Faith for the general population.actually contain logical arguments aimed at proving Buddhist doctrines — TheMadFool
If you decide to walk away from Christianity will they nail you to a cross or something? — praxis
the 'kill the Buddha' thing is about transcending intellection and in that way very zen. — praxis
By my reckoning, the west got it right — TheMadFool
In the future, once utopia becomes a reality — TheMadFool
It seems therefore that the so-called "void" left by religion's departure from our lives can actually be dealt with in a satisfactory manner without abandoning the principle therein contained. — TheMadFool
making necessary adjustments to our minds — TheMadFool
isolate the mind for study, disassembling it as it were, something not that different from putting animals in a lab — TheMadFool
Meditation, to my reckoning, only serves to calm our minds to the point where it becomes possible to reflect deeply about the nature of reality — TheMadFool
Both place pressure on following their doctrines while Buddhism emphasizes that it is strictly optional. — khaled
the 'kill the Buddha' thing is about transcending intellection and in that way very zen.
— praxis
I don’t see how it would be so I don’t think so. — khaled
Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.
The best aid to meditation for me has been cigarettes — Gregory
Leo Tolstoy — Skeptic
It doesn't promise salvation in an afterlife, but merely peace of mind in the midst of the world's evils and suffering. — Gnomon
the Buddha didn't present syllogistic arguments in the Greek manner of philosophy, but Wright traces the logic of his aphoristic teachings to our modern understanding of human psychology — Gnomon
When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.
On the other hand, you know what they call someone who tries to reform Buddhist doctrine? — praxis
Both methods lead to a better life. — khaled
People aren’t sad because they haven’t been able to find heaven in the sky. People are sad because without an omnipotent god telling them what to do exactly and why exactly they were made they can’t figure out what their purpose is and they can’t handle being in such a hostile world for no reason. — khaled
Meditation plays a much bigger role than you give it credit. — khaled
What if you were offered a choice between Eastern thought and Western thought but not both? — TheMadFool
Why do they need a god? — TheMadFool
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.