(Morality is needed) For instance, to justify the need for the rule of law, its importance and value. — Olivier5
1) you need a conscience to be good
2) God is your conscience
3) you need God to good
There are good people in the world. — Gregory
I don't see Marx planning the final extermination of all Slavs in any of those quotes and links you posted. — Olivier5
There are many other things the Nazis borrowed from the Marxists: the idea of a mass party and ideology, the idea of revolutionary violence as a natural means for progress .... — Olivier5
That doesn't mean that he didn't express the idea — Apollodorus
you seem to have forgotten the concentration camps copied by Hitler from Marxists like Lenin and Stalin. — Apollodorus
The belief that belief in god is necessary for being good is itself not good. — James Riley
2) is false. Ergo, 3 is false. 1) is true, and so is the conclusion. — god must be atheist
You're right. And neither does morality.But by your own reconning, the rule of law is not doing so well in America... — Olivier5
Atheists should speak that they believe in God and renew the world. The conflict between believers and atheists causes so much harm. — Gregory
The conflict between believers and atheists causes so much harm. — Gregory
And I deny that ethics ever worked very well anywhere in any society. It is a soft rule, you have a choice of accepting of its teachings for what you want to accept, and not accept and make your own those ethical values that are generally forbidden to you.. — god must be atheist
Well then, you should be able to find a quote where he expresses the idea. — Olivier5
Concentration camps have been used by many others including the US. The real Nazi innovation was the death camps, the factories of death. — Olivier5
That has advantages though: it makes ethics more fluid and evolutionary. — Olivier5
If you remember your Bible, the Hebrews in question were not exterminated. Simply they couldn't reach the promised land for some absurd unworthiness reason. The next generation did, according to the myth. What Marx is saying here is that, although he and many others had placed high hopes in the 1848 revolutions across Europe, these revolutions all failed; hence his generation won't see the promised land, but the next generation will, as it will be better prepared and educated and thus more "worthy".The present generation is like the Jews whom Moses led through the wilderness. — Apollodorus quoting Marx
The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too. Is a step forward” (238). — Apollodorus quoting Engels
At the same time that it's a disadvantage, inasmuch as you can't rely on anyone else to follow the same ethics as you do. — god must be atheist
But the murder of millions of e.g. non-JCI Africans, Indigenous Americans & Austrialians, Indians, and Chinese by "traditional JCI" conquistadors, slavers or colonizing settlers at the behest and with the backing of "traditional JCI" empires and nations for the last millennium (since the Crusades) is, of course, "too hard to imagine" as well. :shade:My point remainsthat it is harder to imagine, plan and implement the murder of millions of people on an industrial scale -- e.g. the Holocaust -- within a traditional Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim) context than it is to do so within a secular context. — Olivier5
With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion. — Steven Weinberg
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