If, for example, we understand the general logical concept of an apple and we see a very convincing plastic fake apple in front of us, we will erroneously think it is an apple until we investigate further. No amount of logic can tell us whether the object in front of us is really an apple. — John
This is not a general rule at all. We know it is that apple. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Logic is specific (self) rather than general (rule, constraint, pragmatic fiction). — TheWillowOfDarkness
This is just wrong; it is a general logical rule that any object, in order to be an object at all, must be that specific object and no other. — John
Again, you have it wrong. It's not even controversial; logic consists (among other things) in general rules about what constitutes specificity. — John
Any object, by definition, is itself. — TheWillowOfDarkness
The general "apple" doesn't tell us anything about a specific apple. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Know the world (e.g. a specific apple) then you will know a rule (e.g. the form of apple). It doesn't work the other way. Knowing the rule (e.g. form of apple) doesn't amount to knowing about the world (e.g. a specific apple). — TheWillowOfDarkness
.You can't know a specific apple, as an apple at least, until you know the "rule (e.g. the form of apple)."
it is that you don't recognise that the specific (that apple) is distinct form the form "general apple." — TheWillowOfDarkness
That's mistaken. Babies are aware of thing before the specific rule of language people around them use to talk about them. One can know about a specify thing before it's been sorted under a particular label or language category. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Yes one can always claim that the difference is worldly because that's how it presents before us and logically. For example, it is the same brain cells and body which is having the experience in Jesus as another person. But what is specifically alluded to in the documented life of Jesus is that he was experiencing, or was in a state of rapture. A visionary state in the world, yes, but in this instance a rapture entailing a direct intervention from an exhalted being in a divine realm. So that, as in the experience of a revelation, the person of Jesus was given access/experience of said divine realm directly. An experience not of this world and that he was in this state at all times.It's pointing that difference is incoherent. No doubt there is a difference between the experiences in question, but that difference is worldly. It's the experience of those world people that's different, not a difference in God. And that's what makes it relevant-- it means one person knows God deeper than another, a worldly significance which makes all the difference here.
I presume you are of the opinion that there is no such thing as this divine realm and that there cannot be such an intervention? — Punshhh
Let him be, then — Heister Eggcart
You are right, I'll go play my flute :D — Agustino
Worse than that: you misunderstand the divine. You mistake it for a mere "possibility" that might or might not be, like it was some empirical state.
Yes I agree, indeed I have been saying just this, in this thread. Although I realise that there is no strict philosophical basis for this position, in the absence of the historical record of revelation.The divine is necessary, not a realm or action which might or might not be, but rather a logical expression of the world. The divine realm is of the world. Meaning is not some mere possible state, defined by separation for the world. It is of the world: family, friends, traditions, rituals, belief, life, death, joy and grief etc., all the meaning, found to outside the world, but always through it. The world is where the infinite lives. It is intelligible. Not a Real possibility, but a Real necessity.
You mistake it for a mere "possibility" that might or might not be, like it was some empirical state. — TheWillowOfDarkness
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