We want nothing to do with your constant warmongering, military and political interference or approach to life. — FrancisRay
Your argument here is absurd and not worth engaging with. — FrancisRay
Hi. I have spent an enormous amount of effort, starting in 2002, debating about the 2003 Iraq war. — Paul Edwards
One thug doesn't simply make a bomb.The real threat of Saddam getting a nuclear weapon was his living existence. — Hippyhead
Look,And then everyone in the region would want their own nukes. A nuclear war in the Middle East could erase the entire region off the map in literally just a few minutes, and could quite credibly suck all the major powers in to a Biblical scale end times scenario. — Hippyhead
The reason why these countries wanted a nuclear was only to have deterrence against the Israeli nuclear deterrence. — ssu
He couldn't rebuild his army, so he surely could not rebuild a nuclear bomb — ssu
And how would they suck all powers to a Biblical end times scenario — ssu
And why have those countries that Israel has annexed territory from and/or been in war with Israel have made efforts to gain a nuclear deterrent?Why have none of the VERY rich gulf oil states developed nukes in response to Israel, who has had nukes for a long time now? They're not afraid of Israel, that's why. They have rationally concluded Israel is not a threat to them. They're making peace with Israel. — Hippyhead
The massive conventional army of North Korea already prohibited Clinton to strike North Korea when it was obvious they went on with their nuclear program. Same conclusion came younger Bush too.Are you aware that North Korea has a bunch of nukes, built out of an economy about the size of a house cat? — Hippyhead
Now you are making arguments for my case that just why a nuclear exchange between let's say Iran and Israel would not escalate bringing other powers to launch their nuclear arsenal.Are you aware that without Mid East oil supplies the global economy goes in to an immediate drastic nose dive and that such circumstances have always been ripe grounds for conflict among the major powers? — Hippyhead
He wants me to wait until tomorrow before I explain that if he is raping someone I will kill him regardless of any rules preventing me from doing so. If I can get away with it, anyway. If I can't get away with it because his name is Uday and I'm an Iraqi citizen I will instead wait for a US liberation and support that. — Paul Edwards
Sorry, but there simply is no fucking 911 to call for a police in this World when it comes to sovereign states. It's anarchy out their. — ssu
Why does Australian law or Dutch law or UK law prohibit you from travelling across the country and attacking a person you believe is a murderer and rapist? You'd be convicted of murder is you did. Why is that? What are the specific exemptions to that and why?
Because, as I've explained, I'm not a psychopath. You might get off in hundreds of thousands of innocent people dying
to enable America to control Iraqi oil, but I cannot.
Are you seriously equating criticising a country for war crimes with invading a country illegally, bombing seven shades of shit out of it, bombing hospitals, weddings, funerals and schools, and torturing prisoners? There are very few intelligent right-wingers, I suppose.
I happen to think we should invade the USA to impose regime change, and you seem to think it would be fine to do this. So my army has support on the ground.
Like Abu Ghraib? — Kenosha Kid
Iran would not be different, there would be a near-endless post-war guerilla offensive by non-state actors and the end result would almost certainly be worse for Iranians than what they have right now. — Judaka
By the way, what the hell do you people think fascism is? The debate between you and Kenosha Kid has been incredibly dumb.
Then just to waltz in, take control of a country through a military occupation and demand a highly function democracy where there hasn't been any, when the various population groups have suffered genocide done by the others and want their own country and independence, is simply condescending Western hubris that basically is totally indifferent to the reality in the country. It is simply just smug self posturing likely to hide other objectives. — ssu
The idea that the USA is a democracy is a game of words. It looks like a dictatorship to me. — FrancisRay
I'm surprised to find we disagree on this. I suspect it's very difficult for you guys over there to see the wood for the trees, so powerful is the 24/7 political propaganda. — FrancisRay
At least you might ask yourself why Britain was about the only country to support Bush's war. Why not more?
We must be careful here. I do not want to be rude to an entire nation, but I wonder if you realise the vast extent of the disgust for US foreign policy.
The UK is in danger of having to do a trade deal with the US, and everybody I know is terrified of the possible consequences. We want nothing to do with your constant warmongering, military and political interference or approach to life. — FrancisRay
What a damn silly comment. Surely you can see that it s silly. . — FrancisRay
Your argument here is absurd and not worth engaging with.
And does freedom for brown people have no value to you? — Paul Edwards
But this is exactly the heart of the problem. We're dealing with a world that has traditionally been rife with dictators. The dictators are never going to agree that democratic nations are the ones who should be judge, jury and executioner of other dictators, but that's exactly the sort of thing needed for justice. It is the democratic countries that have just governance.
So we need a "plan" to deal with the world as it is. YOU should come up with that plan yourself. Then you can compare the plan with what the US government is doing, and maybe email them any suggestions for improvements. If we were all planning on liberating the rest of the world, to end the screams coming from next door, then when the US (et al) executed their plan to liberate Iraq, it would likely have dove-tailed into your own plan.
The US shouldn't need to sell this war to you. You should be selling your liberation plan to them *in advance*.
And note that your plan will necessarily call for deception. You can't let the dictators know you're coming for all of them, as we need the help of allied dictators against non-allied dictators, and we don't want a hostile "dictator alliance". We don't have the luxury of only rubbing shoulders with fellow democracies. The world hasn't yet reached that stage of development. One day it will be a requirement for entering the UN that you are a democracy, and that any country that has a military coup is immediately subjected to a UN liberation. But we're not there yet. — Paul Edwards
Are you saying we should let religious bigots decide whether they can enslave a population or not? — Paul Edwards
And does freedom for brown people have no value to you? Brown people shouldn't be fight and die in any fight for freedom? — Paul Edwards
Have you ever met even ONE person who supported the 2003 Iraq war so that America could control oil? — Paul Edwards
Not only didn't you care about the welfare of the Iraqi people, you actively tried to stop the cops when they tried to end the holocaust. — Paul Edwards
When Saddam was committing his crimes, it was LEGAL for him to do so. The police were on the side of the criminal. — Paul Edwards
When the US commits crimes, they are TRIED and JAILED, because it is ILLEGAL. — Paul Edwards
No, I'm saying that you cannot justify your evil with the evil of others.
Do you always call them brown people? Is that especially relevant?
One of the two people who pushed the Bush administration into the war at every opportunity was quite clear about why he did it.
This is the most insane conversation I've ever been in. For all you know I was 10 years old during GWII (I wasn't, but...)
The police you keep referring to (the US military) were the criminals in this case. Is that better?
Yet to see anyone responsible for the illegal invasion of Iraq to be tried and jailed.
I don't know what motivates you to not just ignore the screams of brown people but actively try to stop them from being helped. — Paul Edwards
You mean you're not 10 years old now??? Dang, I got that one wrong. — Hippyhead
No, I reached that age where something isn't automatically true because a bunch of right-wing politicians told me. — Kenosha Kid
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