Abstaining from procreation; as a basis for the reduction of suffering, from the perspective that that which remains unborn cannot suffer, is, when extrapolated forward, a fantastic logic for mass murder as a means to reduce universal suffering. Which is entertaining, but largely unsupported by...well almost everyone. — Book273
Suffering is based on perspective of the individual choosing to accept that what they are experiencing is suffering. — Book273
I suggest that suffering promotes growth, which, eventually, leads to acceptance and internal peace. — Book273
It is an experience of caregiving. — schopenhauer1
No one has the perspective change that perhaps it is not good to make another being endure, and deal with existence in the first place. — schopenhauer1
However, if that is the case, they are playing the game anyway. — Book273
Bitch away, bitch away, bitch away.. Just don't blow smoke up my ass by accepting the situation. Everyone has their own sufferings and death by a thousand cuts... — schopenhauer1
You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. We're all singing, all dancing crap of the world. — Tyler Durden
There are probably many reasons people desire dependents. And in nearly all cases, I would say that the acquisition of a dependent is the result of impulse, rarely is it founded securely on solid rationale and well-thought-out reason. I'm quite confident most people are on autopilot nearly all the time. — Merkwurdichliebe
I cannot think of one young woman that is totally put off from the thought of giving birth. — Merkwurdichliebe
The feminine is more immediate than the masculine, so it does not consider the course of history in its desire to procreate. The masculine has a stronger affinity towards the historical and speculative, but the feminine has the power to draw the masculine into immediacy. Translated, men want what women have, and to get it, they ultimately must give the woman what she wants, and what does the woman want more than anything else.... a baby. It's all part of God's sick plan. — Merkwurdichliebe
Right! Remember Fightclub:
You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. We're all singing, all dancing crap of the world.
— Tyler Durden — Merkwurdichliebe
you could have saved space and simply blamed women for everything. Heavy stereotyping in your perspective.
I have known many women, young and old, who do not, and have not, desired children. I know many men that have. — Book273
Yep, I suspect in a lot of cases you are right. Cultural habits and expectations instilled, without much reflection for why they hold these expectations, why society might be perpetuating them, how they are being influenced by them and perhaps manipulated by it. — schopenhauer1
I can and have met some. It's not an instinct as much as a cultural expectation and a personal feeling of losing out on the "caregiving of my genetic offspring" experience. I don't equate that with other animals that procreate more because "It's that time of the season" and then go into immediate caregiving mode, literally without reflection due to inability to do so and deliberate on the matter like a human can. — schopenhauer1
you could have saved space and simply blamed women for everything. Heavy stereotyping in your perspective. — Book273
I have known many women, young and old, who do not, and have not, desired children. I know many men that have. — Book273
No, life is about suffering and then coping with it. — schopenhauer1
That in itself should be examined as to whether this is good in the first place, not gaslighted and then robotically overlooked for the next generation, and the next, etc. as if this answer is then an excuse to keep perpetuating the situation.. oh see. I can create life with suffering, because you see if they don't like it, it will be their fault.. You see what is happening here?
Do you have strong evidence that women are "immediate" and men are "speculative".. These sound like really stereotypical tropes more than reasoned or empirical claims. — schopenhauer1
I think it's better to accept that humanity will ultimately consume itself, then mock it all for its incorrigible stupity. — Merkwurdichliebe
You forgot to make popcorn while you watch the show. Of course humanity will consume itself, it consumes everything else and is nondiscriminatory that way. — Book273
It prevents future suffering, not alleviates current ones. True, it literally helps no "one". The last part is just a straw man argument you are trying to knock down. I never stated how noble people are for not procreating, and how amazingly rewarded they should be. That is your false attribution.
You have to have suffering or pain or whatever it is for some gain. Again, just because that is the reality, doesn't mean it is then automatically a good thing. That is what I am trying to decouple from what seems to be your presumption there. — schopenhauer1
Work towards utopia, and prevent birth, so do both. — schopenhauer1
Any attempt to implement utopia, whether technologically based or not, necessarily requires some measure of tyranny. — Merkwurdichliebe
It is totally absurd to merely consider the possibility of a system that perfectly fits every single individual, free of conflict and injustice. — Merkwurdichliebe
And even to imagine such a fictitious state invokes imagery of an excruciatingly boring and meaningless existence. — Merkwurdichliebe
Show me a field of people without strife and I will show you field of corpses. Utopia is a pipe dream. — Book273
It doesn’t prevent suffering. It prevents birth. It prevents life. But no, it doesn’t present suffering any more than cutting your thumb off prevents a thumbnail. — NOS4A2
What is your ideal reality you describe like exactly? No pain? I wouldn't be able to tell if I'm carrying too much or exposed to too much heat until my arms snap or flesh singes? Or would that just not happen and we'd all be supermen. Or just magically healed shortly after? If we're all super than technically no one would be. What about becoming trapped somewhere? Can we teleport out? Boredom? We'd all just be insanely fascinated by the slightest thing like a drop of water dripping from a faucet or some inllectual way like how paint drying actually is pretty interesting scientifically? How would this work? — Outlander
Is the choice necessarily a presumption? Much generation happens without a lot of consideration. Some happens with care and the responsibility to do what one can to help.
Your position does not distinguish between different forms of life in this regard. We are all just bunnies fucking in order for the species to survive whatever is above them in the food chain. — Valentinus
It prevents suffering because it prevents birth. You are implying that this is drastic. The trillions of unborn babies not being born is not drastic. Cutting off a thumb to prevent a thumbnail (which doesn't even make sense) is drastic, yes.
You’d deny the entire gamut of human experience so as to avoid one degree of it. — NOS4A2
The anti-natalist should be honest and admit that his principles are born from fear — NOS4A2
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.