You mean supporting both String Theory and MWI is a contradiction? — Marchesk

No - that saying there is ‘only one world, the natural world’ contradicts both of those ideas. Doesn’t it?

(See this review.) — Wayfarer

As has already been mentioned, Sean is a Humean about causation. So there are just regularities. Those might be in logical relation to one another, like a mathematical system. That's the only way I can think to make sense of causeless patterns. Otherwise, why would we expect the universe to remain uniform? Why would the patterns have obtained all this time?

yeah as Kant pointed out, unless Hume already had the power of reason, he wouldn’t be able to tell what ‘a pattern’ was.

Sounds pretty reductionist. — Marchesk

Yeah, OK, that does sound reductionist. But I must confess that there is a lot of muddle and controversy in this bundle of concepts: reductionism, emergence, supervenience, downward causation, autonomy, etc. Better philosophers than Sean Carroll have been trying to make sense of this mess and still there isn't anything like a settled opinion, not even on on their meaning.

modern physics has rendered traditional materialism obsolete — Marchesk

Physics, matter, physicalism, and materialism belong to entirely distinct logical universes that do not intersect. Obsolete is a value judgment coming from personal intuitions that in this case cannot possibly be applicable to independent world systems. None of them can ever be refuted or obsoleted either logically or empirically.

But I don't know what it means for information to be fundamental, as opposed to fields or particles or spacetime. . . . . Information seems to me to have something to do with repeatable patterns that emerge from the fundamental physics. — Marchesk

Meaningful patterns are indeed one aspect of Generic (universal ; all-encompassing) Information. But there are many more forms of Information (the power to enform, to create). Other emergent phases of Information are Energy and Matter. That abstract Information can be converted into measurable Energy is not as well-known as the fact that Energy can then be converted into Matter (E=MC^2), and vice-versa. But it's an idea on the cutting-edge of quantum physics. It appears that Information is much more than Shannon's empty vessels of data. Generic Information is a Protean shape-shifter --- the pattern-morphing potential of evolutionary creativity. :nerd:

Is Information Fundamental? : https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/is-information-fundamental/

Fundamental Principle of Information-to-Energy Conversion : The bit of information is equivalent to a quantum of minimum energy
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1401/1401.6052.pdf
https://physicsworld.com/a/information-converted-to-energy/

The mass-energy-information equivalence principle : https://aip.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/1.5123794
https://figshare.com/articles/presentation/ENERGY-INFORMATION_EQUIVALENCE_PRINCIPLE/12479180/1

The student of Aristotle usually begins with the Categories; and the first thing that strikes him is the author’s unconsciousness of any distinction between grammar and metaphysics, between modes of signifying and modes of being. When he comes to the metaphysical books, he finds that this is not so much an oversight as an assumed axiom — C.S. Peirce

It's true that Aristotle had nothing to say about Semiotics, or Semiosis, or Semiology in his Metaphysics. But he also had nothing to say about Quantum Mechanics in his Physics. So, what point was Pierce making in the quote? Semiology may be merely a further reductive analysis of Aristotle's symbols and motifs. :cool:

Aristotle on Rhetoric : Being capable of grammar is not the same property as being rational,
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle/

Saw this yesterday and wondered how such a behavior could emerge from evolution... It's about a species of puffer fish. The male puffer fish creates a nesting ground for the female in the shape of a sand sculpture. The female gets attracted (supposedly) by the 2 m large work, goes in the center, and when bitten by the male, lays her eggs. The eggs are fertilized by the male and dropped off at the center of the circle. The male then protects the eggs while the female goes away, and while his sculpture progressively erodes around him... The full work is visible at 2:00 mn. (in french)

Around 57:45, Sara tells Sean that she doesn't think the Standard Model is up to the task of explaining life, because at the scale of chemistry, the physics of information emerges. Sean mentions a paper by Mark Bedau which argues that the weak emergence is when the higher level properties of whatever systems like life could have been in principle simulated by a computer prior to life. — Marchesk

She says the desire is to reduce biology to physics, but physics (as a field of human knowledge) emerges from biology. — Marchesk

Seems like you could say the same thing about biology. The question is whether or not the scales and levels of the universe are epistemological or ontological.

Yes, and I'm not sure whether Sara was arguing epistemology or ontology. It sounded like she wanted to expand physics to incorporate the emergent biological information.

Saw this yesterday and wondered how such a behavior could emerge from evolution... — Olivier5

The Puffer-fish boudoir looks like a creative work of art. So, it might be an example of the creativity of Evolution, as discussed in the Purposes of Creativity thread on this forum. However, some of us may not think of blind random evolution as a creative process. That notion might imply teleology. But compare the original state of the universe (raw energy) with its current state (civilization, technology, art, etc) and it's hard to deny that there is some general creative constructive impulse behind the behaviors of even "dumb" animals. Hegel called that historical competitive progressive self-transcending creative movement, The Dialectic. In my thesis, I call that impulse, EnFormAction. :smile:

Creative Evolution : Creativity in humans may be merely a more highly developed form of evolutionary Adaptability, which allows animals to survive and reproduce. If so, its primary purpose is to out-live the less-adaptable competition. But humans have taken that competitive trait to a higher level. In animals, most of their creative acts are genetically inherited. They follow a trial & error heuristic that seem erratic, but increases their odds of finding food or sex or power,
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/478349

Does Competition Make Us More Creative? : https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/does-competition-make-us-more-creative

Dialectic : The notion that history conforms to a “dialectical” pattern, according to which contradictions generated at one level are overcome or transcended at the next, . . .
https://www.britannica.com/topic/philosophy-of-history/History-as-a-process-of-dialectical-change-Hegel-and-Marx

Yes, and I'm not sure whether Sara was arguing epistemology or ontology. It sounded like she wanted to expand physics to incorporate the emergent biological information. — Marchesk

It sounded like she was saying that biology is ontological and physics is epistemological.

Physics, biology and chemistry are different views of the same thing. Each view is dependent upon the present goal, so I think that the emerging levels and scales are epistemological in nature.

An amalgam of physical states IS a chemical state. An amalgam of certain chemical states IS a biological state.

↪Harry Hindu
Yes, and I'm not sure whether Sara was arguing epistemology or ontology. It sounded like she wanted to expand physics to incorporate the emergent biological information. — Marchesk

Probably both. She looks at Biology and Physics, not as separate realms (scales & levels) of reality, but as different ways of looking at the same world. Those disciplines differ on how closely they examine their subjects. Since the subject-matter of Biology is visible and tangible, that science is more like ordinary Knowledge (epistemology) of concrete material objects. But Physics studies subjects that are typically invisible and intangible (electrons ; fields), hence seem closer to the essence of reality (Ontology). The primary subject matter of Physics (energy) is what the ancients would call "Spirit" (essence ; Soul).

In an interview with John Horgan, Stuart Kaufman -- also associated with Santa Fe Institute -- notes that, "No laws entail evolution of biosphere". Then, he says, "Evolution creates the very possibilities into which it becomes, without "selection" "acting" to achieve the very adjacent possible opportunities into which it becomes". This ironic-sounding statement is reminiscent of Terrance Deacon's notion of Causal Absence. What he's implying here is that Evolution is inherently creative, and not just pre-determined by the past. So, when novel things emerge from the heuristic evolutionary process, it's not an accident -- it's what evolution does. Kaufman is primarily a Biologist, but he also "expands Physics" into Biological domains. :smile:

Kaufman Interview : that some sort of anti-entropy, order-generating force
remains to be discovered.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/scientific-seeker-stuart-kauffman-on-free-will-god-esp-and-other-mysteries/
Note -- that "anti-entropy" force is what I call Enformy
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html

Causal Absence : Constitutive absence: A particular and precise missing something that is a critical defining attribute of 'ententional' phenomena, such as functions, thoughts, adaptations, purposes, and subjective experiences.
http://absence.github.io/3-explanations/absential/absential.html

The Puffer-fish boudoir looks like a creative work of art. — Gnomon

Well, they all look the same so there’s limited creativity from the individual puffer-fish. It is thought that females evaluate the size and regularity of the sculpture to assess the size and fitness of the males.

What amazes me is the mathematical precision of the sand sculpture, the several concentric circles, radial furrows and all.

Well, they all look the same so there’s limited creativity from the individual puffer-fish. — Olivier5

Yes. For most animals, their "creativity" is learned by long evolutionary development, and passed-on genetically. So their "art" tends to be repetitive and conventional. But, as in Bower Birds, females tend to force competitive creativity by selecting the male's creation that has the difference-that-makes-a-difference, such as a shiny or colorful object to catch the discriminating eye. Such artistic behavior is not just a "way to get girls", it's also an emergent non-biological (mental) trait that enhances reproductive fitness.

In humans though, there may be some artistic inheritance, but creativity is also passed-down memetically. People imitate their heroes, and sometimes surpass them in imagination & creativity. Artificial human culture, and creativity, moves along much faster than natural evolution. But culture also builds upon the foundation established by the heuristic (exploring many options) evolutionary process. :smile:

Bower Bird Creativity : https://dragonflyissuesinevolution13.wikia.org/wiki/Creativity_for_attracting_a_mate-Australian_Bowerbirds