Why would enjoying pain that is caused to you be evil? — MrLiminal

I change your question slightly: Why would liking pain that is caused to you be evil? I distinguish between enjoying and liking. By liking, I mean you prefer something.

Chimps and cats and other animals are curious. I don't think a God created humans. I think we evolved from an ape like animal and that we would make better decisions if we built our beliefs on science rather than mythology.

Chimps and cats and other animals are curious. — Athena

Correct. Curiosity is the fundamental aspect of life.

I don't think a God created humans. I think we evolved from an ape like animal and that we would make better decisions if we built our beliefs on science rather than mythology. — Athena

I have to say evolution is accepted as a scientific fact, but that does not mean that there is Divine intervention is not involved during the processes of evolution. That is true because physics is precise, but it is not exactly precise! Evolution is an imprecise discipline. So, there may be a slight change in the matter beyond the precision of physics. Consider that as fine-tuning Divine's intervention, which is necessary for the emergence of life. So, we cannot make a solid argument against Divine intervention when it comes to the philosophy of science!

I have to say evolution is accepted as a scientific fact, but that does not mean that there is Divine intervention is not involved during the processes of evolution. That is true because physics is precise, but it is not exactly precise! Evolution is an imprecise discipline. So, there may be a slight change in the matter beyond the precision of physics. Consider that as fine-tuning Divine's intervention, which is necessary for the emergence of life. So, we cannot make a solid argument against Divine intervention when it comes to the philosophy of science!

First of all, The Theory of Evolution says nothing about the emergence of life, that's abiogenesis, not evolution. Second, there's no need to try and come up with an argument against divine intervention when there's no sound argument and/or evidence for divine intervention. We should accept a hypothesis as a theory only when there is sufficient evidence to support it. Lastly, if we don't currently know something, in regards to physics, then our conclusion should be, "we don't know." It's not, "we don't know, therefore, it's divine intervention." That's the philosophy of science.

BTW,
Not accepting a hypothesis does not necessarily mean that you accept it as being false/wrong.

Second, there's no need to try and come up with an argument against divine intervention when there's no sound argument and/or evidence for divine intervention. — night912

I have an argument for the Mind is the cause of change in physical that you can find it here.

Lastly, if we don't currently know something, in regards to physics, then our conclusion should be, "we don't know." It's not, "we don't know, therefore, it's divine intervention." That's the philosophy of science. — night912

Our instruments have certain precision, so it is not about whether we can say "We don't know". We can say this for sure: one cannot exclude the role of Divine intervention when it comes to life!

one cannot exclude the role of Divine intervention when it comes to life! — MoK

Sure, as night pointed out, rejecting does not mean accepting it as false.

However, we can absolutely set it to one side until something even vaguely indicative comes along. So far, it hasn't, so we're almost behooved to set it to one side, currently. This has been the case for about 200 years, best I can tell. There's simply no good reason to continue entertaining it on current knowledge. Given that this is a culmination of moving away from Divine intervention as a reasonable hypothesis, the indication is that the more we know, the less likely it becomes to the point of almost assured falsity (not assured - almost assured).

Sure, as night pointed out, rejecting does not mean accepting it as false. — AmadeusD

I understand that. So he does not accept the hypothesis since?

I wouldn't speak for them. I reject it. I just don't know if its actually false. Thats all i can say, I think.

Well, why do you reject it if you know it is actually false? I think we should consider all hypotheses unless we can show that some of them are false.

I assume you mean if I don't know.

Becauase there is absolutely no reason to entertain all comers. I will entertain theories with something (even a lick) of indication they might be true. Fairy stories do not fall into this category.

But you cannot falsify that fairies are untrue, given that our instruments are not precise enough.

I agree, but we do not entertain the idea of fairies beyond stoned bonfire chats (which are great, do not get me wrong. I love delving into speculative stuff. But here on TPF that's not the bag, imo).

I think that the idea of fairies is important when it comes to reality, since we cannot explain out-of-body experiences, near-death experiences, etc., without them. There is one thread on NDE. There is another thread on what the soul is. That is all I am aware of. Perhaps there are more.

I think perhaps you're missing a few tricks. We can explain everything we currently know without fairies. NDEs, specifically, are a world away from requiring fairies. Unless by 'fairies' you just mean unexplained phenomena. Perhaps, but I still think you're giving it more than it's worth.

NDEs, specifically, are a world away from requiring fairies. — AmadeusD

NDE, to me, refers to the existence of something that experiences when even the brain is shut down. They seem to experience themselves in the form of a ghost as well. Once you accept a ghost as a real thing, a new world will open to you. What about spiritual reality?

I don't know what you want here? You've posited three things I think require more than just some wishful thinking to obtain.

THe brain is not entirely shut down during NDEs. That's why they are NDEs. It doesn't suggest much of anything but that the mind is powerful.

I also note fairies appeared nowhere in that?

What spiritual reality?

The brain is not entirely shut down during NDEs. That's why they are NDEs. It doesn't suggest much of anything but that the mind is powerful. — AmadeusD

NDE also occurs in cases in which the brain also shuts down according to researcher: "Near-death experiences (NDEs) are intensely vivid and often life-transforming experiences, many of which occur under extreme physiological conditions such as trauma, ceasing of brain activity, deep general anesthesia or cardiac arrest in which no awareness or sensory experiences should be possible according to the prevailing views in neuroscience."

I also note fairies appeared nowhere in that? — AmadeusD

Have you ever heard of DMT?

What spiritual reality? — AmadeusD

The reality that is hidden from our senses for some reason. The reality we cannot detect it by our instruments either, because they are very light.

1. If brain activity entirely ceased, it could not be restarted. Vegetative states are not death. That's key.

2. I am extremely well-informed about DMT. I spent around 10 years intensely embedded in the communities relevant to it including helping to design research protocols, raising funds, public speaking, ceremony and much else besides..

3. I see, that's fair enough. I'm unsure there is anything interesting there. Infrared light isn't that myusterious, is it?

1. If brain activity entirely ceased, it could not be restarted. Vegetative states are not death. That's key. — AmadeusD

I am not an expert in this field, and I just report what an expert says. Perhaps @Sam26 can comment on this more.

2. I am extremely well-informed about DMT. I spent around 10 years intensely embedded in the communities relevant to it including helping to design research protocols, raising funds, public speaking, ceremony and much else besides.. — AmadeusD

Oh, that is interesting. So, you used DMT. Have you ever used it in such a dosage to encounter the Elves mentioned in this video?

3. I see, that's fair enough. I'm unsure there is anything interesting there. — AmadeusD

Or perhaps something is interesting as it is mentioned in the above video. I am a schizophrenic, so I experience weird things all the time. Some of my experiences are interesting.

I am not an expert in this field, and I just report what an expert says. — MoK

There is literally a surge of brain activity during NDEs, typically gamma waves. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4576755/ - this paper is a mishmash, and gives us almost nothing to move the field forward. It is someone employing wishful thinking - trying to lump together psychedelic experiences, NDEs and several other notions. These fall apart at the level of basic scrutiny, given the lack of homogenaiety in any of them.

h, that is interesting. So, you used DMT. Have you ever used it in such a dosage to encounter the Elves mentioned in this video? — MoK

I have. I have also spoken at length with Terence's brother Dennis, who is a friend. I have encountered entities. The Elves noted in this video appear in the reportage after Terence became popular. It is not likely, in any way, that these are actual entities. Dennis accepts this, for what that's worth. I have also encountered entities with Mescaline, Psilocybin and Salvia (I do not recommend the latter, at least smoked. It is meant to be chewed fresh).

Some of my experiences are interesting. — MoK

That's fair, but not what I was getting at - it is not interesting to the field. People hallucinate and image things. Wow. Yknow?

There is literally a surge of brain activity during NDEs, typically gamma waves. — AmadeusD

Do you know of any studies that support this?

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4576755/ - this paper is a mishmash, and gives us almost nothing to move the field forward. It is someone employing wishful thinking - trying to lump together psychedelic experiences, NDEs and several other notions. These fall apart at the level of basic scrutiny, given the lack of homogenaiety in any of them. — AmadeusD

Maybe.

I have. I have also spoken at length with Terence's brother Dennis, who is a friend. I have encountered entities. The Elves noted in this video appear in the reportage after Terence became popular. It is not likely, in any way, that these are actual entities. Dennis accepts this, for what that's worth. I have also encountered entities with Mescaline, Psilocybin and Salvia (I do not recommend the latter, at least smoked. It is meant to be chewed fresh). — AmadeusD

Oh, that is a lot of drugs! And, why do you think that your encounters are not referring to real entities?

That's fair, but not what I was getting at - it is not interesting to the field. People hallucinate and image things. Wow. Yknow? — AmadeusD

What is interesting in my experience is that my hallucinations are coherent—my conversations, my visions, my other experiences that I cannot explain with words. Therefore, I believe my experiences may refer to other beings, unless my subconscious mind is deceiving me.

I am not an expert in this field, and I just report what an expert says. Perhaps Sam26 can comment on this more. — MoK

I'm no expert on DMT. I've listened to many accounts of people who have taken DMT, so I have some knowledge. If I'm an expert in anything, it would be NDEs and Wittgenstein's OC. My expertise is very focused and limited. That said, I'm loath to call myself an expert in any subject.

I'm no expert on DMT. I've listened to many accounts of people who have taken DMT, so I have some knowledge. If I'm an expert in anything, it would be NDEs and Wittgenstein's OC. My expertise is very focused and limited. That said, I'm loath to call myself an expert in any subject. — Sam26

Cool. I am wondering if there is any brain activity during NDEs, or if there was at least one case in which there was no brain activity during the NDE.

I am wondering if there is any brain activity during NDEs, or if there was at least one case in which there was no brain activity during the NDE. — MoK

There is a classic example that I've given in my thread 'Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body.' It's about Pam Reynolds from Atlanta. You can look it up on YouTube, but some of the videos are old.

The following is a section of my book where I mention this case:

From Testimony to Knowledge: Evaluating Near-Death Experiences

Chapter 1: The Preliminaries

In 1991, Pam Reynolds lay on an operating table at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, undergoing a rare “standstill” procedure to remove a life-threatening aneurysm near her brain stem. Surgeons stopped her heart, lowered her body temperature to 60°F, and drained blood from her brain. She was clinically dead, with no measurable brain activity; her eyes were taped shut, and her ears were plugged with speakers emitting 100-decibel clicks to monitor brain-stem function. Yet Pam later described rising above her body and observing the surgical team with extraordinary precision. She noted the bone saw’s peculiar shape, “like an electric toothbrush” with a groove for interchangeable blades, and saw the case containing spare blades. She heard a female voice say, “We have a problem, her arteries are too small,” followed by a discussion of trying the other side. She reported being drawn through a tunnel toward a light more brilliant than anything imaginable, yet not painful to perceive. There she encountered deceased relatives, including her grandmother and an uncle she had known only from photographs. They communicated without words: “It’s not your time. You must go back.

When surgeons later confirmed these details, the unusual design of the Midas Rex bone saw, the unexpected problem with her arteries requiring femoral access from the left side, and the exact words spoken, they were puzzled. Dr. Robert Spetzler, the renowned neurosurgeon who operated, admitted his bewilderment: “I don’t have an explanation for it. I don’t know how she can quote the conversation and see the instruments. These are things she shouldn’t have been able to experience.” He confirmed additional details that troubled him: Pam’s accurate description of the craniotomy drill’s unexpected pitch (a high D natural that bothered her musician’s ear) and the specific pattern in which they had shaved only the top portion of her head, leaving hair below for cosmetic reasons. “From a scientific perspective,” Spetzler concluded, “I don’t know how to explain it.”

Many thanks. So, there was at least one case in which the person experiencing NDE had no brain activity. Case closed!

One case isn't enough, but there are thousands of corroborated cases, and millions of NDE accounts across the globe. You'll have to read my book when it's released in a few months.

One case isn't enough, but there are thousands of corroborated cases, and millions of NDE accounts across the globe. You'll have to read my book when it's released in a few months. — Sam26

One case is enough if you want to discard the idea that the experience arises from brain activity.

My point is that one case isn't going to be enough to convince materialists that consciousness isn't a product of the brain. In other words, it doesn't originate in the brain.

You need many affirmations to tell a theory is correct. One negation, however, tells that the theory is incorrect.

Yes, I do. One of several related works.

I agree, maybe. But I think it's likely, rather than a coin toss.

And, why do you think that your encounters are not referring to real entities? — MoK

I am on drugs. What kind of logic is it that says you alter your consciousness in a way that reliably causes hallucination, yet you take hte entities as real?? Seems utterly bizarre to think they are real without further.

What is interesting in my experience is that my hallucinations are coherent—my conversations, my visions, my other experiences that I cannot explain with words. Therefore, I believe my experiences may refer to other beings, unless my subconscious mind is deceiving me. — MoK

Your imagination is also coherent. This is an absolute nothing in terms of supporting a view that they might be real entites. I have full-blown conversations with my dead dog in my dreams sometimes.

I've actually had one dream where i was with Graham Hancock on a vine-covered river cruiser speaking at length about the possibility that psilocybin mushrooms graduated through ancient Welsh ceremony to the Druids. Two days later, I fell asleep and hte dream picked up in the exact same place. I was able to report hte entire conversation. This simply means my mind is agile.