None are free to coerce. — Agustino
...if she wants to have that abortion with my money, I think I have full rights to tell her what to do with her body...
But is being on friendly terms with others what is required to get things done? I dare say that at the highest levels of politics, most people there can be manipulated based on their own selfish desires and greed, such that even if they don't like you, you can get them to do what you want so long as you dangle the carrot. — Agustino
Precisely, democracy fails as a system, it's a bad political system. — Agustino
No, not quite. One ought not to coerce someone to take a particular choice by physical force or the like. But this isn't to say there can't be pressure one way or another, or that a particular choice can't be made difficult by society.SO the principle behind liberalism, that one ought not force the choices of another, is acceptable to you. — Banno
I don't think coercion is inevitable. It wouldn't be inevitable if everyone wasn't selfish and adhered by the principle of not doing anything that would harm others. But many people don't - hence coercion becomes inevitable.Then am I right in thinking that for you it is the application of that principle that causes grief; that in practice coercion of one sort or another is inevitable? — Banno
Yes.Is that right? — creativesoul
No, of course not, why would I be? :sSo you would not be in favour of coercing a man to have a vasectomy, for example, if that was decided to be the best way to ease rampant population growth? — Banno
I don't understand this example. No, I wouldn't be in favor of legally forcing people to avoid pork, but I wouldn't have a problem with a community deciding that they don't eat pork and hence nobody selling pork there.You would not be in favour of forcing folk to avoid pork, if that was off the menu for the majority. — Banno
No, doctors shouldn't be forced to perform the operation. What should be seen is that there is no discrimination - in other words that if a particular doctor doesn't perform the operation, then he or she doesn't do it on anyone.And if someone had a lesion, an ulcer, and others said that it was a good and important thing, not to be cut out, that would not be grounds for denying that someone an operation to remove the lesion? — Banno
No, doctors shouldn't be forced to perform the operation. What should be seen is that there is no discrimination - in other words that if a particular doctor doesn't perform the operation, then he or she doesn't do it on anyone. — Agustino
If the doctor and the patient are willing that is sufficient. Same for abortion. But the doctor shouldn't be forced by the community to give abortions when requested of him. That would be minimal requests to say the least.But if a doctor were willing to perform the ulcer, under what circumstances should the operation be allowed to go ahead? — Banno
However, if you want to speak about homosexual marriage, now that would be a problem since religious institutions cannot be forced to marry homosexual people. — Agustino
Well, to begin with, it's not even feasible to coerce them to abstain from sexual intercourse... how would that even be achieved?So they ought not be coerced to abstain from sexual intercourse, if they so choose? — Banno
I just explained it? — Michael
Well presumably the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church would also not perform same-sex marriages. Other institutions should be free to make whatever decision they want.The Church of England is forbidden from performing same-sex marriage and all other religious institutions must opt-in of their own accord. — Michael
Well presumably the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church would also not perform same-sex marriages. — Agustino
Other institutions should be free to make whatever decision they want.
If it harms another, it's not allowable. Even abortion should perhaps not be allowable for this reason, but at minimum physicians shouldn't be forced to perform it if they have a problem with it, nor should taxpayers be forced to finance it.I'm asking these questions in order to get a feel for the extent of what freedoms are allowable. — Banno
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.