How important do we think wisdom is in our lives, and do we agree with contemporary thinkers like John Vervaeke that we “suffer a wisdom famine in the West”? — Tom Storm
No. That said, there are many ways to educate ourselves. I don't mean academically. Reading, listening to other reputable people, and watching the actions of those you respect.Can an uneducated person be wise? — Tom Storm
Wisdom is whole. So, a wise person should have wisdom in all aspect of their life -- practical skills and moral awareness.Does wisdom usually belong to one or two specific domains, or is it a broader category of integrated practice? To what extent does it involve practical skill, moral awareness, or both? — Tom Storm
Very important. I don't mean being a sage. Vervaeke could be right. Anytime someone points to the west, they mean the insatiable appetite to amass great wealth and conquer whatever it is to be conquered. At the expense of wisdom, there is suffering as a result of this behavior.How important do we think wisdom is in our lives, and do we agree with contemporary thinkers like John Vervaeke that we “suffer a wisdom famine in the West”? — Tom Storm
do we agree with contemporary thinkers like John Vervaeke that we “suffer a wisdom famine in the West”? — Tom Storm
I’m interested in reading member's thoughts on wisdom. — Tom Storm
Can an uneducated person be wise?
— Tom Storm
No. — L'éléphant
But in general, wisdom and cleverness are a natural dichotomy that organises the brain. And so also organise society as our collective brain. We have something of major metaphysical importance that goes beyond personal neurology and speaks to our societies as the combinations of its institutions and its innovations. — apokrisis
How do the two sides of this equation play into each other, and is something new indeed occurring as a next phase of its evolution? — apokrisis
Can an uneducated person be wise?
— Tom Storm
No. That said, there are many ways to educate ourselves. I don't mean academically. Reading, listening to other reputable people, and watching the actions of those you respect. — L'éléphant
Wisdom has a moral implication, — Banno
You can be too clever by half but never too wise. You can be very smart, but can you be very wise? You can be quite wise. The fragility of intensifies indicates that wisdom is an absolute quantity.
We have folk wisdom, Divine Wisdom (complete with capitals), ancient wisdom, and conventional wisdom. Wisdom can be possessed, accumulated and passed down. And even occasionally applied.
Better to be wise than knowledgeable or intelligent, and we have artificial intelligence, not artificial wisdom. Wisdom is earned by suffering and experience, not so knowledge or intelligence. We say someone is intelligent when they demonstrate analytic capacity but wise when they show good judgement.
Is it more serious if I question your wisdom than if I question your judgement? — Banno
I like it. — Tom Storm
Sure. The Enlightement casts a shadow. I'm overall in agreement with Vervaeke's diagnosis, although bearing in mind it is presented via a series of 52 hour-long lectures, staring with the neolithic, so it's very hard to summarise. — Wayfarer
They’ve seen everything before. I was thinking for a minute that maybe wisdom and maturity are the same thing, but that’s not right. I guess it’s more that maturity is a prerequisite for wisdom. Wisdom stands back and sees everything at once, how everything fits together, what’s going to come next. — T Clark
— Tom Storm
No.
— L'éléphant
That’s ridiculous. I think it shows, perhaps, a lack of wisdom. — T Clark
I asked Claude to have a go at this for me, and it produced the following groups:
Judgment/decision/conclusion/opinion (evaluative processes)
Experience/knowledge/facts/information/understanding (epistemic foundation)
Ability/skill (capacity)
Good/sound/valid/reason/sense (normative approval)
Quality/standard (measurement/evaluation)
It then suggested on this basis that wisdom sits at the intersection of out epistemic and normative judgements. This last corresponds to my own intuition. To be wise is to achieve a good outcome. — Banno
To my eye that's more an excuse for rejecting more recent ethical values. I spent yesterday at a Voluntary Assisted Dying conference, and came away with an overwhelming belief that VAD is a moral good; one that would have been impossible to implement until recently. Quite the opposite of what proposes?I personally struggle to accept that today’s people are intrinsically unhappier and/or more foolish than previous generations or eras... — Tom Storm
Not sure. - but it does seem that while one might recognise wisdom in another, supposing oneself to be wise is... problematic. It's something one attributes to another.Is wisdom, when demonstrated, appreciated by others? — Tom Storm
Aren't there folk who are wise in some areas and dunces in others? — Tom Storm
The root for wise traces back to the Proto-Germanic wis-, meaning "to see" or "to know". This Germanic origin is seen in words like the Latin sapientia ("wisdom") and the Greek sophia ("wisdom"), both connecting to discerning or tasting meaning.' In Sanskrit, 'vidya' is 'wisdom' or 'true knowledge' (more often encountered in the negative i.e. 'avidya', signifies lack or absence of wisdom). Also from the root 'vid', meaning 'to know' or 'to see'. — Wayfarer
My Masters thesis was on organisations making decisions despite their being undecidable. But only the good undecidable decisions are wise... — Banno
Every so often I meet someone who is simply wise, who shows a capacity for moral discernment and prudent decision making more typical of someone mature with a lot of experience. My suspicion is that some wisdom is innate, or at least can be cultivated early. — Tom Storm
No, I'm seeing education as not just schooling and formal instruction.You’re seeing education as something quite different from traditional book-smart or university-style learning. I imagine it is possible to be wise in some areas and foolish in others. — Tom Storm
That’s ridiculous. I think it shows, perhaps, a lack of wisdom. — T Clark
Of all the personal qualities that a person can have - intelligence, character, integrity, experience, wisdom, temperament, maturity, personality, virtue - what wisdom and maturity have that set them apart from the others is distance, dispassion. They’ve seen everything before. I was thinking for a minute that maybe wisdom and maturity are the same thing, but that’s not right. I guess it’s more that maturity is a prerequisite for wisdom. Wisdom stands back and sees everything at once, how everything fits together, what’s going to come next. — T Clark
So "uneducated" to me means no formal schooling and/or no instruction from the wise people. — L'éléphant
I still think you’re clearly wrong. — T Clark
- the conviction that one is choosing the best answer when in truth one is imposing one solution amongst many. That imposition is the ethical aspect. — Banno
No, I'm seeing education as not just schooling and formal instruction. — L'éléphant
to me means no formal schooling and/or no instruction from the wise people. — L'éléphant
Ah, you are forgetting one principle -- this is parallel to what you're saying "how do you know there's an error in a process?" You know there's an error when you've seen the correct result from that process and now another person using the same process did not arrive at the same result.I wonder if it is possible to become wise by learning from the foolish? After all, with discernment, watching a fool and what happens to them can be very instructive in learning what not to do. — Tom Storm
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