Love of life. Ja sagen! (F.N.) Listening to music. Dancing. Wu wei. Platonic love. Lasting friendship. Gardening ...It often seems we only realize the true value of something after it's lost. But is there a way to consciously experience gratitude, recognition, and sober appreciation without having to go through loss? — Astorre
awareness — Astorre
Are there any methods, practices, or approaches that truly help a person appreciate what they already have — Astorre
:up:I like 180 Proof answer - dancing. Just force yourself to act joyous, listening to a favorite jam, and gratitude and laughter follow. — Fire Ologist
. Maybe someone knows other approaches? — Astorre
There are situations where loss does not have to be experienced to appreciate the value of life itself. Blissful ignorance is one. There were isolated people who lived their lives contently without experiencing significant losses. Or the "losses" they experienced is part of living a life -- old age, passing away, illness.It often seems we only realize the true value of something after it's lost. But is there a way to consciously experience gratitude, recognition, and sober appreciation without having to go through loss? — Astorre
Since you come from a background, I'm sure your familiar with the motif of portraits of Orthodox monks in their monastery's ossuaries where they are sitting contemplating the skulls of their deceased brothers (or sisters I suppose) by the light of the alter. Some Catholic saints are also often depicted with a skull for similar reasons. I have heard of Eastern monks even sleeping in their own eventual caskets as a meditation on death. — Count Timothy von Icarus
Thanksgiving: the one you're mentioning, which is now contextualized. — Count Timothy von Icarus
There’s repentance. I don’t mean this in a religious sense, but as re-construal. The best way to appreciate anything in our life is to refresh its meaning for us. Simple attention won’t do this. Stare at anything long enough and it disappears. We must always re-construe in order to retain relevance. — Joshs
And the most important question that arises in this regard: Do people need to make this most accurate assessment of what they already have in their daily lives, or is it easier to simply live life as it comes? — Astorre
Well said.If I may express it briefly: The Method of Humbly Presence is a conscious way to appreciate life without loss, accepting oneself not as the center of the world, but as its natural part. Through the rejection of egocentrism, gratitude, sobriety of perception, and the ability to rejoice in the simple are born. — Astorre
Are there any methods, practices, or approaches that truly help a person appreciate what they already have — their health, relationships, freedom, knowledge, opportunities, the people around them?
It often seems we only realize the true value of something after it's lost. But is there a way to consciously experience gratitude, recognition, and sober appreciation without having to go through loss?
I'd be very interested to hear both your personal reflections and any perspectives you're familiar with — whether philosophical, religious, psychological, or otherwise. — Astorre
I remember that period in my life, which lasted about a year, well. My values were tested in practice. I became convinced of them. But again, all this became possible only on the brink of loss. — Astorre
The skull is just a practical reminder, usually of (one's) mortality.I was somewhat skeptical of this skull worship. — Astorre
I would like to repeat my question:
And the most important question that arises in this regard: Do people need to make this most accurate assessment of what they already have in their daily lives, or is it easier to simply live life as it comes?
— Astorre — Astorre
For one, I am skeptical about such practices. Does Donald Trump write a gratitude journal? Successful, important people don't seem like the types who would do such things, because it seems to me that it is precisely because they take for granted what they have (wealth, health, power, etc.) and because they feel entitled to it and demand it from life that they have it in the first place. They don't beg life; they take from it. — baker
Secondly, all such practices that I can think of are somehow religious in nature. As such, it won't be possible to carry out those practices meaningfully unless one is actually a member of the religion from which they originate, because those practices are only intelligible in the metaphysical context provided by said religion. — baker
Christian "Thanksgiving" cannot be taken out of context and viewed as a standalone tool. It may have some effect, but the content itself will certainly be missing. Taking "Thanksgiving" out of Christianity and calling it the key is very reminiscent of a "success coach" and his attempts to offer five simple steps to achieving harmony and prosperity.
Do you think any attempt at simplification is impossible and will be empty, or is some systematization possible to convey the idea without delving into it? — Astorre
Whether you were in fact on the "brink of loss" is a matter of interpretation.
It's also possible to conceive of the situation in another way, for example: You had been on the brink of loss all along. Prior to having feelings for that other woman, you weren't fully committed to your wife and family to begin with, and this lack of committment (perhaps unknown even) is what made the emotional straying possible at all. — baker
We buy things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like.” — baker
The way the question is formulated, it looks like moralizing. "Do people need" ... Who are we to tell others how to live their lives ... — baker
“Every person – whether Greek or Barbarian – who is in training for wisdom, leading a blameless, irreproachable life, chooses neither to commit injustice nor return it unto others, but to avoid the company of busybodies, and hold in contempt the places where they spend their time – courts, councils, marketplaces, assemblies – in short, every kind of meeting or reunion of thoughtless people. As their goal is a life of peace and serenity, they contemplate nature and everything found within her: they attentively explore the earth, the sea, the air, the sky, and every nature found therein. In thought, they accompany the moon, the sun, and the rotations of the other stars, whether fixed or wandering. Their bodies remain on earth, but they give wings to their souls, so that, rising into the ether, they may observe the powers which dwell there, as is fitting for those who have truly become citizens of the world. Such people consider the whole world as their city, and its citizens are the companions of wisdom; they have received their civic rights from virtue, which has been entrusted with presiding over the universal commonwealth. Thus, filled with every excellence, they are accustomed no longer to take account of physical discomforts or exterior evils, and they train themselves to be indifferent to indifferent things; they are armed against both pleasures and desires, and, in short, they always strive to keep themselves above passions … they do not give in under the blows of fate, because they have calculated its attacks in advance (for foresight makes easier to bear even the most difficult of the things that happen against our will; since then the mind no longer supposes what happens to be strange and novel, but its perception of them is dulled, as if it had to do with old and worn-out things). It is obvious that people such as these, who find their joy in virtue, celebrate a festival their whole life long. To be sure, there is only a small number of such people; they are like embers of wisdom kept smouldering in our cities, so that virtue may not be altogether snuffed out and disappear from our race. But if only people everywhere felt the same way as this small number, and became as nature meant for them to be: blameless, irreproachable, and lovers of wisdom, rejoicing in the beautiful just because it is beautiful, and considering that there is no other good besides it … then our cities would be brimful of happiness. They would know nothing of the things that cause grief and fear, but would be so filled with the causes of joy and well-being that there would be no single moment in which they would not lead a life full of joyful laughter; indeed, the whole cycle of the year would be a festival for them."
On the Special Laws, 2, 44-48
It's important to distinguish between change and becoming. Bodily changes are possible without being: physical labor, fatigue, or illness transform the body, but do not necessarily lead to becoming. We distinguish between becoming—everything that exists in the flow of change—and being as the act of maintaining a boundary in the direction of transcendence. Becoming requires not just movement, but a conscious effort to maintain meaning in change. The body becomes a frozen bodily limit when its changes occur without the will to overcome, like a person who repeats routine work for years without caring for the body. Such a body may lose weight, gain muscle mass, or become ill as it adapts, but without the conscious participation of the subject, these changes do not lead to being. The bodily limit becomes the loss of conscious effort, leading to formation without transcendence.
In Christian asceticism or Buddhist practices, the bodily limit is often interpreted as an obstacle on the path to the higher. Through fasting, hermitage, or asceticism, the body is diminished so that the spirit can find freedom. Our analysis, based on a phenomenological approach to becoming, rethinks these practices.
Unlike Merleau-Ponty, for whom the body is the center of perception, we emphasize it as a field of consciously shifting boundaries in the act of being. The paradox of asceticism is that the renunciation of the body makes it a point of tension, a field for testing the limits of containment. However, if fasting or abstinence become a habitual rite, the boundary is fixed, and the body loses being.
The body is not an obstacle, but a possible center of becoming. Fasting or restraint can be an act of maintaining a boundary if the subject experiences them as a movement in becoming. But where the goal is the disappearance of the body, a withdrawal from being occurs. We do not oppose traditions, but distinguish: where the body is redeemed or abolished, being fades; where it is transformed through a conscious shift of boundary, being lives. The body's limit is not only illness or aging, but also the loss of the body's capacity to serve as a vessel for becoming. We are not limited to the human body alone. By "body" here we understand any embodiment of the subject—biological, social, institutional, even symbolic. Where form becomes the locus of being, it can also become its limit.
We assert: the body is the limit and condition of being, but only until it solidifies into form.
When the subject—be it an individual, a community, or a system—ceases to see the body as a possibility and begins to reproduce only inertia, the body loses its being, becoming a mere shell of existence.
Bodily becoming is not an automatic change, but a striving for self-transcendence. Even degradation does not abolish movement, but, having lost awareness, it turns it into a dead end. A body that indulges in passions without consciousness accumulates changes—toxins, disorder—but does not manifest conscious becoming. It remains a change, but no longer being.
As long as your socioeconomic situation is good enough, or at least tolerable enough, you don't (have to) worry about such things.For one, I am skeptical about such practices. Does Donald Trump write a gratitude journal? Successful, important people don't seem like the types who would do such things, because it seems to me that it is precisely because they take for granted what they have (wealth, health, power, etc.) and because they feel entitled to it and demand it from life that they have it in the first place. They don't beg life; they take from it.
— baker
Who is Donald Trump—and why should the way he conducts his affairs matter to me? Why should his lifestyle or mindset be my guide? And, most importantly, why should "success" even determine my value system or level of happiness? Just because it's accepted—because that's the dominant discourse? — Astorre
Socioeconomic success is not guaranteed, regardless of one's effort. But we have no choice but to pursue it. However, as noted above, if one's socioeconomic situation is good enough, or at least tolerable enough, and such that one doesn't have to work until exhaustion just to get by, then one will not feel a pull to think about these things more deliberately.Let's say someone chooses the path of wealth, influence, and external recognition—a path that essentially echoes the Calvinist paradigm: if you're successful, you're chosen by God, therefore you're worthy. But does this make a person truly happy? And will you really, by giving up many human qualities for the sake of "success," necessarily achieve it?
Of course. But don't let the external appearance of wealth and prosperity distract you. People in South Korea are in a situation as precarious as the people living in slums in some godforsaken country. The relative difficulty of earning a living is similar in both scenarios, even though they seem completely different at first glance.Here's an empirical example: South Korea. A society where success is cultivated from childhood. A child studies from dawn to dusk, deprived of spontaneous joy, then studies to the bone at university, then works beyond their limits to pay the rent and bills. And here it is, the long-awaited result: you have the ghost of a chance to have one child (you can't afford more). Society is objectively "successful," but look at the birth rate, the burnout rate, and the suicide rate.
Being cold and hungry and exhausted tends to put things into perspective.I'm not saying this path is inherently wrong—but the task of philosophy, it seems to me, is not to give instructions on "how to live," but to offer a different perspective. To question the obvious. And to help people see value where it's usually not sought—not only in victories, but in the very fact of being.
It's not that it's imprecise; it's that it's decontextualized. As you note later:Secondly, all such practices that I can think of are somehow religious in nature. As such, it won't be possible to carry out those practices meaningfully unless one is actually a member of the religion from which they originate, because those practices are only intelligible in the metaphysical context provided by said religion.
— baker
It's always connected to religion, metaphysical, and therefore imprecise.
Christian "Thanksgiving" cannot be taken out of context and viewed as a standalone tool. It may have some effect, but the content itself will certainly be missing. Taking "Thanksgiving" out of Christianity and calling it the key is very reminiscent of a "success coach" and his attempts to offer five simple steps to achieving harmony and prosperity.
Yes to the first and no to the second.Do you think any attempt at simplification is impossible and will be empty, or is some systematization possible to convey the idea without delving into it?
— Astorre
Why would anyone offer them (or anyone else, for that matter) anything to begin with?Let's say a person is not religious, rational, focuses on verifiable judgments, and demands precise answers to precise questions.
What can be offered to such a person?
I imagine that such people either already appreciate what they have, or they don't care about appreciating it anyway.Is it necessary for them to first accept a religious or metaphysical worldview in order to begin to appreciate what they already have?
No.Or can philosophy offer approaches that allow this to be done outside of a religious context?
I think that people who are not religious do value things. But they seem to evaluate them in a different context than religious people do. Which is why, from the perspective of the religious, it seems that the non-religious don't value things.Do you need to "value" anything at all if you're not religious?
Enough for whom, by whose standards?Or is it enough to simply live without asking such questions?
We buy things we don't need with money we don't have to impress people we don't like.”
— baker
An interesting expression. I don't envy people who live by such principles. How do you see a solution to this problem? — Astorre
Some people seem to do just fine even without such reflections.Perhaps, indeed, my formulation sounded like an attempt to answer for others, but my intention was different—not moralizing, but exploratory. The question "Should people..." is not a directive, but an attempt to understand: does a person have an existential need to evaluate their own life, or is it perfectly acceptable to live without engaging in this reflective labor? — Astorre
I'm interested in this too. Back in college, we had an exam in youth literature, so I had to read some books for children and the youth. It struck me especially how books for children, somewhere up to age 10, were so intensely ideological. There were books with full page illustrations and those large letters and they were teaching children capitalist and individualist values! Ayn Rand for beginners!So my question is non-directive. Not "should" or "shouldn't," but rather: what changes in our lives when we evaluate them? And is it possible to learn to appreciate them without loss and catastrophe?
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