Do you believe Kirk’s killer was a leftist? — praxis

I believe he thought Charlie Kirk was a fascist. So yeah, probably. But it’s not important. The shooter wasn’t playing politics anymore was he? If you think he was playing politics, then you need to know if he was leftist or not. He wasn’t a white supremacist, was he?

I believe the people who celebrated Kirk’s death were on the left. They were playing politics. Using death as a statement.
I don’t believe we should curtail their speech. I just believe they are sick or being immoral. And utterly stupid about how politics in a free society is supposed to work.

So you’re just denying it. — praxis

That the right hates leftists? I’m not denying that. What’s not to hate? I’m saying who cares? Besides children at recess on the school yard. “Stinky pants hater!”

The head of the FCC said "we can do this the easy way or the hard way" and Jimmy Kimmel was suspended. — RogueAI

1. That was wrong of the FCC and he was rebuked. (It wasn’t just Ted Cruz who rebuked him. That says it all.). So I agree it was chilling speech, but he was rebuked.
2. Kimmel was suspended for a week. (That says Kimmel wins the speech battle.)

This all happened right before our eyes - no shady government corruption, just stupidity on behalf of the FCC.

It all played out the way it should. We should keep an eye on the FCC for sure, but what else is new?

You don't think Trump tried to steal the 2020 election? — RogueAI

Steal? By sending insurrectionists off to the Capital? No, that is stupid.
By messing with state delegates? Maybe he tried to work the system with every ounce he could muster. Maybe he pushed all limits. But steal? How do you take actions in court and appeal delegates, all in public view, etc as “theft”? Any improprieties are done in the light of day. Which is why he stepped down when he had to step down. This is hardball people. Was Al Gore trying to steal the election in 2000? No he wasn’t either.

Do you think Jan 6th happens if Trump doesn't give that speech right beforehand? — RogueAI

I never heard the speech so I don’t know. I think the fact that it is a question and the answer is not plain as day speaks volumes. Maybe fools all see what they want to see, as they always are foolish - like anyone who thought Trump was hoping people would storm the Capital so they stormed the Capital, and like anyone who thinks Trump wanted to stay in office by force.

It doesn't concern you that Trump talks about running in 2028? — RogueAI

No, it concerns me (a little) that people don’t realize he’s messing with them. So silly.

I could see Trump trying to amend the constitution so he can run - but it will never happen.

So gullible.

It’s like the sombreros on Hakeem and Schumer mean Trump is racist. So silly.

Or that he wanted to suspend the Constitution to reinstate himself? — RogueAI

Trump stepped down from office in 2020.

Trump will not run in 2028. Trump will not be president after 2028. Period. If I’m right, do you think the left and the media who are currently worried about this rethink anything? And I’m definitely right about this.

There are way bigger threats to democracy in the US besides Trump messing with gullible lefties.

The hatred for Trump blinds people. And when Trump is gone, the hate will live on and breathe strong against whoever takes his place - and we’ll get more conspiracy theories about elections and white supremacy and whatever else is easiest flavor of BS the media can push. Guaranteed that whoever takes Trumps place will be worse than Trump in the eyes of the media. The media thinks Trump is stupid and just an egomaniac. So if the next person looks smart at all, now they’ll be an evil genius - worse than Trump if you can imagine that! And we’ll see all of the same threats to democracy coming from them. Such tired BS.

I have asked you multiple times, at least half a dozen times now, for evidence. — Mijin

Evidence of what woke is? Are you serious?

Or evidence of how Trump is not a fascist - you want me to prove a negative, with positive evidence? My proof Trump is not a fascist is the fact that he stepped down from office in 2020 all while he seems to have believed the election was stolen from him.

You are the one who needs to prove how woke isn’t a thing. How woke isn’t all over the university system.

Pick your pronouns - that’s of the essence of woke.

You don’t need to climb back in here. I tagged you because I didn’t want to use your name here without you knowing it. I had to reference you because @Athena didn’t see the context. That’s all.

Happy to discuss things, but we should slow down.

Evidence of what specifically do you think I haven’t addressed 12 times?

Evidence of what woke is? Are you serious? — Fire Ologist

Any evidence of the injustices and suppression of free speech and free assembly that you're saying is a significant problem on the left, right now.
Preferably comparable to what is happening in the real world, with ICE protestors being brutally put down, an executive order basically saying left wing ideology is terrorism and a speech to the military making it clear that ideological loyalty is a requirement. And this is just in the last few days.

My proof Trump is not a fascist is the fact that he stepped down from office in 2020 all while he seems to have believed the election was stolen from him. — Fire Ologist

Haha, that's hilarious.
You know, you and I have had our differences, but with wit like that, you're all right @Fire Ologist, you're all right.

That the right hates leftists? I’m not denying that. What’s not to hate? — Fire Ologist

Not what I was asking.

I’ll leave you with a quote from someone who Charlie Kirk described as “awful” and “not a good person”:

“I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear.”
— Martin Luther King Jr.

Any evidence of the injustices and suppression of free speech and free assembly that you're saying is a significant problem on the left, right now. — Mijin

Right wingers want to talk ideas at a university (you know, a university, where ideas are talked about and minds are supposed to be challenged). https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/maga-debate-group-at-tennessee-state-university-escorted-off-campus-after-chaos-erupts/ar-AA1NeoqB
And the media calls it "escorted off" - meaning threatened, bullied and scared into running for their lives.

Normal left tactics. When faced with someone who wants to....talk ideas, the left screams "hate speech" when they don't like those ideas. It's the policy of at least 95% of our universities to bow to left-leaning student temper tantrums. They are too scared of the woke mob, and more to the point, they don't know what to do even if they wanted to stop such nonsense. They are incapable of saying "sit down and listen and learn" to flakey college kids. They fear such behavior is fascist and authoritarian, when screaming mobs are actually fascist and authoritarian. So my example of injustice and suppression of speech is, today's university system. Right wingers need not ask to speak. Until Kirk was shot of course, now some of them feel embarrassed, but continue to misunderstand what their policies have built at the university. Today's university is just a re-education camp to anyone who doesn't pay attention. So that is teachers using the authority of their positions to tell millions of conservative thinkers (who are children looking for guidance) to keep quiet. Don't dare to say "my pronoun is obvious to anyone with half a brain." That's hate, and bad, and must be silenced, and you should be ashamed of yourself for all of the evil thoughts that must accompany such a statement. So just shut up. Try to be conservative on a college campus today. You will know what chilling is.

California legislation to force censorship. https://cabassa.substack.com/p/newsom-to-sign-bill-that-could-censor.
The law is intended to "prohibit discrimination, violence, intimidation, or coercion based on protected characteristics such as race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or immigration status." In other words - it is trying to push woke ideology and silence the right. So only discrimination based on those things? How about unprotected characteristics, like, being a white man, or having a conservative ideology? And does "Christianity" count as a religion?? Any consistency to be expected Gavin??? Who gets to be judge of what gender is, what religion is, what race means...??
It won't fly in America. Watch. Totally Orwellian. Like in the UK, where laws like this land individuals in jail for saying mean words that hurt people's feelings. Utterly weak. The left wants to give the government all of the power, but then scream its the end of freedom when conservatives win elections - how about we just keep the government out of regulating speech?
So that is spot on legislation, giving enforcement power to the government, to tell whoever they want to shut up because the current government happens to think their ideas are "dangerous". This type of legislation is the beginning of the end of freedom.

The left doesn't see government power as a threat to freedom. They just see government power in the hands of republicans as a threat to freedom. That's incoherent and illogical.
How about government power in the hands of anyone? Let's not let the government regulate our speech.

How about when the FBI investigated parents who said they didn't like woke school curriculum shoved in their kids faces? https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/whistleblowers-the-fbi-has-labeled-dozens-of-investigations-into-parents-with
Sounds pretty big brother to me.

How about when the IRS targeted conservative organizations? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/federal-court-strikes-down-irs-policy-targeting-conservative-group/ar-AA1NKVNs
Our government isn't allowed to judge winners and losers. We get to do that at the ballot box. The IRS can stick their opinions up their ass, which is what the court said.

This is government action chilling speech, and its not right wing dude. And it's not for nothing. The UK and Europe are in real trouble when it comes to freedom of speech and assembly. The US has become the last man standing for free speech. The left in America aren't helping. At all.

______

The FCC and Jimmy Kimmel thing was bad. Really bad. That is government abuse that chills speech.

Pam Bondi saying "there is free speech, but then there is hate speech" was utterly woke bullshit. Pam was wrong there too.

Trump's free speech threats: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/5519888-trump-free-speech-threats/

Most of it is rhetoric (not law), and legal battles that we will have to see how it plays out. I agree, it is chilling.
But the press needs to watch their sources and their opinions - there has to be some check on the "press" and that check is lawsuits for defamation and fraud.

I agree Trump promotes threats to free speech, and so Trump can create a danger to freedom. He needs to be closely watched and managed (like, what politician doesn't?). But I don't believe he is doing anything that our system cannot handle.

Don't worry. He won't be president in 2029.

The left wants to change the system - Newsom's law is an example of that. Mamdani's socialism is an example of that. They want to give the government too much power. Trump is abusing the power the government already has. Trump shows us the weakness of the controls we citizens have over our current governmental officials. If we give the government an inch, people like Trump (and the FBI and IRS under Biden) can take it a mile.

But the left's solution is.....give this government more power to silence people.

Like Gavin Newsome, in the name of "misinformation" and "hate speech" the answer is more power to the government and keeping right-wing voices silent. Fucking brilliant. Poor California. Such a mess.
______

that's hilarious. — Mijin

It's also true. But ok.

____

EDIT ADDED:

All of Trump's talk about the "enemy within" and the deployment of troops to handle Democrat states, and statements like he "hates democrats" - that is all seriously bad shit. But there are extremist enemies within the US (some of whom are left wing). So it is matter of how Trump applies force; it is not simply bad because he even thinks there are "enemies within" (because there always have been). "Enemies" is a strong word though. Need to watch this play out a bit more to call it "fascist" though. It might be better called "law enforcement."

You know a definition of a war zone is a place where there are 4 deaths per 100,000 people. That often describes our big cities. The Democrats aren't dealing with crime. The only cities where murder rates are down are cities where murders are not being counted the same anymore. There is danger coming from the left my friend.

Are you saying leftists don't hate the Maga?

Not what I was asking. — praxis

What is your point? Tell me how it really is.

I am not Maga. Never was. I had to vote for Trump because.... Biden/Harris had no ideas, not a clue.

I never used social media. Right after Kirk was murdered, I first downloaded Instagram. I don't have twitter or facebook or TikTok accounts. Barely use LinkedIn. When I watch the news, I put on CNN until I can't stand it, then I watch Fox, until I can't stand it. I get my news from all over the place. I mostly think politics is a burden. I'm pursuit of happiness focused. And that comes from engaging with those in need and building a business for all of my employees.

But now young men are getting shot for political speech, and many others are celebrating it. So I said enough with holding my tongue. I think a few million others are saying the same thing. Around the country and around the world. The left's paper thin reasoning and rhetoric just isn't going to fly anymore.

Trump putting sombrero's on Hakeem Jeffries is monumental. The only people offended by that are the ones who are losing the arguments. They aren't offended because of its racism (although they of course say that bullshit). They are offended that Trump refuses to learn from them how to behave.

Woke-type ideology has been leading Western cultural changes since the 1980's. Woke peaked under Obama and spawned the Trans rights movement. (Trans rights ironically cause the woke to begin eating its tail, as Trans people pose big problems for woke homosexual policies, and woke feminist policies, as well as for basic security for children). Wokeness became untenable. And the right finally reacted. That was 2016 with Trump's victory over Clinton.

Now, the deep trench wokness dug of our culture is full of mud. Now the left is more outraged than ever, and less rational. Now people sympathetic to the left shoot people more often than they used to.

I think the world is realizing that only half of its population even wants to be free. Only half of the population really wants to be responsible for their own lives. The rest, the lefties, want government to take care of them and protect them (even from mean words and haters!). The left has been gaslighting about their interest in equal rights for all people. They don't give a shit about all people. They only care about the half that don't want freedom.

Still in denial.

Still in denial — praxis

We know you are Praxis, but he’s trying very hard to get you not to be.

:up:

We know you are Praxis, but he’s trying very hard to get you not to be. — DingoJones

Do you also deny that MAGA used Kirk’s assassination for anti-leftist hate mongering?

It was a commentary on your denial not your politics. I was being cheeky, this thread could use some levity.
Maga anti left hate mongering is standard OP. I think the same can be said of the other side as well. (Not the left, the left Maga equivalent.)

Do you also deny — praxis

Do you deny the Left hates MAGA?

Do you deny hatred from the left is behind all of the protests and assaults and deaths and billions in property destruction these past 5 plus years in America? No leftist hatred on the streets of Portland today?

anti-leftist hate mongering — praxis

Hate mongering, like wearing a red hat (punched in the face), or a shirt with an American flag (ripped off and beaten), or holding a vigil and burning some candles (stomped on and pissed on).

MAGA “hate mongering” like that? So scary when those MAGA folks monger that hate.

During the summer of Floyd a woman was murdered for saying “all lives matter”.

What a joke.

It was a commentary on your denial — DingoJones

Which is?

That there is nothing to what Fire is saying but dishonest Maga talking points. If Im wrong about that view then apologies.

Do you deny the Left hates MAGA? — Fire Ologist

You can look at approval ratings on sites like this I guess: New Marquette Law School Poll National Survey

Do you deny hatred from the left is behind all of the protests and assaults and deaths and billions in property destruction these past 5 plus years in America? — Fire Ologist

Wasn't that about police brutality? If not, what exactly are you referring to?

No leftist hatred on the streets of Portland today? — Fire Ologist

Isn't that about ICE raids?

That there is nothing to what Fire is saying but dishonest Maga talking points. If Im wrong about that view then apologies. — DingoJones

I've said that his views regarding what woke is are "inaccurate" and "skewed" by MAGA rhetoric.

The point is the left is way, way better at hate. Hate is an important ingredient to leftism.

The democrat candidate for governor in Virginia tells everyone to “let your rage fuel you”. Rage isn’t hate. But the democrat candidate for attorney general in Virginia was caught fantasizing and texting about the death of republican rivals and piss on their graves.

My point is, your point about MAGA using Kirk to hate monger is just so inconsequential. Kirk was shot. I’m sure the shooter bumped into some woke hate. What about woke hate? Anything there?

Forget it…

Trump is not 'political' at all. He is an immoral opportunistic bully, aligned with colleagues who value his opportunism and weird charisma to empower their own opportunistic agenda....

— Jeremy Murray

That seems a little naiive to me. Trump is clearly highly political and cares deeply about political issues. He is, though, a moron with only glimpses of moral scruples. But I don't quite understand this characterisation - just as I don't when words like 'dictator' are thrown around. It's just not serious enough. — AmadeusD

I mean, he was a Democrat most of his life? He changes his mind weekly? What political issues does he care deeply about? Dictator, sure, pass, that gets abused.

I imagine the man does care about his base. Is that political?

I think it's fair to say that he is anti-war. Otherwise, I see little deeply held belief.

None of this is hard to see
— Jeremy Murray

It does seem to be, though. — AmadeusD

You don't see people increasingly connecting the 2025 project to Trump's actions? I only made this connection myself after reading commentary making the connection. The Kimmel thing is the obvious example. Perhaps the rest of it 'remains to be seen'?

To me, he has been telling people what he was going to do for years, with the insurrection the most obvious. People are still surprised when it happens, but that's not because the statements aren't there to see. It's that the actions are so outrageous.

I've said that his views regarding what woke is are "inaccurate" and "skewed" by MAGA rhetoric. — praxis

Ok. Inaccurate..sure, a broad stroke rather than nuanced. Skewed by Maga rhetoric? A broad stroke. Its possible to express opinions that overlap with Maga without being a maga drone.

If this interests you so much just read the damn thread. :roll:

The point is that you’ve been influenced by divisive political rhetoric — and are even proudly promoting it — rather than seeing things as they truly are. For example, your definition of woke is inaccurate because it essentializes “woke” into a narrow, partisan frame. It portrays wokeness as treating race, sex, and power as the most important factors in all choices, when in reality most who identify with or are labeled as “woke” simply emphasize awareness of systemic inequities alongside other concerns. It also reduces wokeness to “behavior and ideas” tied to progressive liberals and DEI initiatives, reflecting a common conservative critique rather than a neutral or self-described meaning. In practice, “woke” is a broader, contested term rooted in social awareness, not just a partisan ideology. — praxis

I’m sure the shooter bumped into some woke hate. — Fire Ologist

It was woke hate, right? Isn’t that what you believe?

If this interests you so much just read the damn thread. :roll: — praxis

Ive been following along.