As this seems a gently Left leaning forum — unimportant

Do you think people who are left of the extreme right and Trump to be left leaning? I don't think this forum is very left leaning, I think it's pretty balanced. But it is generally the case that conservatives on the right don't care about rational reasoning or established science. This is built into what it means to be a conservative, i.e the established values of the past are more important than what any science or reasoning in the present says.

So when a forum is dedicated to rational reasoning, scientific scrutiny and philosophical discussion, it tends to clean out much of the narrow thinking that the conservative right, by design, does.

It is fundamentally impossible to be truly philosophical and also adhere to a conservative right-wing ideology as that positioning is evangelically rigid.

With that said, the Trump regime and MAGA cult does however not work according to conservative rightwing values and ideas. They're essentially without any ideas or visions. If you actually track what they say over time, there's no structure, no center point; they essentially pick up any topic and go in any direction that builds their community, especially if it organizes them against something or some people.

It is the behaviors of a cult, taken advantage of by a leader (or rather, leaders) who know how to manipulate and steer them in order to have support for whatever vile agenda they put forward. It's the same for Trump, RFK and everyone at the top.

It's no wonder that the MAGA movement have grown out of evangelical christian fundamentalists. If you want to have a following that will take a bullet for you, then rein in the gullible religious people into your influence and you will have a following that will support you in whatever you say.

Normal republicans, or people on the right need to wake up to the fact that Trump and his cult is a cancer on their side. The problem is that the republican party is so filled with people who are just interested in their own journey as politicians that they bend over for this cult as long as they can continue this journey.

Most of them are so blind to the consequences of this that they will realize too late that they've been dragged down into the lunatic wing of the right.

Trump is kind of silly and people don't take him seriously. Well a lot do since he is elected. — unimportant

It doesn't matter if people take him seriously or not. His policies hurt people, his policies and decisions have lead to the deaths of people. I think it's important not to be blind by the indirect causes of his actions and decisions, and the actions and decisions of people around him.

Just because he's a laughing stock doesn't mean the consequences of his decisions and actions are.

The entire entity that is the MAGA right and Trump and his closest in power, is in fact a fascist movement. And as such shouldn't be taken lightly.

Historically, it's the apathy of the people that brings forth fascism, acting only when it's too late to act.

The political advantage of RFK for T is that he pulled in the people who believe those kind of stories. That is it.

The group being solicited is deemed by the operation to be necessary for their future existence.

The political advantage of RFK for T is that he pulled in the people who believe those kind of stories. That is it. — Paine

You're referring to conspiracy theorists - a large segment of Trump's base. Had RFK stayed in the race, he could have pulled some of them away from Trump.

It seems clear that such an appeal to the base is still high on the agenda.

I don't think this forum is very left leaning — Christoffer

Oh, its definitely left leaning.

In what way?

On the staff we have between 2 and 2.5 Marxists, 2 left-liberals, and 2 conservatives. I guess that's more left than right.

Yet, there's also a point to be made that many arguments that rely on facts tend to be called leftist. There's far more climate science deniers or general deniers of scientific results on the conservative right... so if a human's best attempt to reach a truth based on facts and scientific data is considered "leftist", then I guess that tells more about the political spectrum than that this forum is "unbalanced".

And even so, conservatives can make their points and arguments in here anyway, there's nothing removed because of that. But if people think hate speech or similar is just a matter of politics, then that's maybe the fault of that person and not a forum that aims to reach for a higher level of discourse than the usual online climate.

If this place seems leaning towards the left... it may have more to do with who actually seeks discussions and knowledge rather than some "agenda" by the mods.

Yet, there's also a point to be made that many arguments that rely on facts tend to be called leftist. There's far more climate science deniers or general deniers of scientific results on the conservative right... so if a human's best attempt to reach a truth based on facts and scientific data is considered "leftist", then I guess that tells more about the political spectrum than that this forum is "unbalanced". — Christoffer

I don't agree with any of this, and I'm very left.

I don't agree with any of this, and I'm very left. — Jamal

How do you mean?

Are we not seeing primarily conservative rightwingers deny climate science or, for the purpose of this thread, medical science? Isn't it often the right that confuse hate speech, racist remarks etc. with politics, then defending themselves with "it's free speech"?

Whenever I see arguments about some place being left leaning, it usually tends to be about rightwingers science denial demanding their arguments to be taken seriously, even if facts are against them.

Although, the whole "left vs right" polarization is something I feel is such a low point overall. What people attribute to left and right seems arbitrary or bound to whatever definitions culturally they have in their own nations and life. "left" and "right" in Sweden is for the most part left of Democrats in the US, so discussions nationally in Sweden about "left" and "right" tend to look very different than in the US.

Maybe people should stop calling themselves and others "leftwinger" or "rightwinger" in discussions that has nothing to do with economic politics. Because someone like RFK, could exist on either side of the spectrum, it's just that he got a home on the right because the republicans have incorporated ideas into their party and policy that comes from the conspiracy theories of the MAGA movement. So everything is about being against trans, gay, medical science as well as outright racism, I'm surprised they didn't have room for flat earth as well, seen as how in denial RFK makes the party towards medical science that helps people and children from dying.

None of that has anything to do with rightwing economic politics really, and it doesn't even have much to do with classical conservative values.

The "left vs right" has just become the way the polarized world brands itself. It's become a marketing tool for both sides to strawman the other and protect the self.

Yet, true knowledge based on facts doesn't care about such arbitrary labels we place on ourselves and others. It's just tribalism.

How do you mean? — Christoffer

I meant that I'm not on board with your rhetoric. Anyway I only came in here to shed some light on the political leanings of TPF. In any case, the conservatives on the staff are no more ignorant of the facts than the others, as far as I can see. Facts have nothing to do with it, and in general the accusation that the other side ignores the facts is thrown from both sides. It's a nothing argument, on its own.

the conservatives on the staff are no more ignorant of the facts than the others, as far as I can see. — Jamal

I was speaking generally of the current political climate. I know "conservative" isn't a description of "a person denying facts".

Facts have nothing to do with it, and the accusation that the other side ignores the facts is thrown from each side. It's a nothing argument, on its own. — Jamal

As I elaborated on.

Fine, carry on.

Yes there are some intelligent conservatives. They don’t last long in political party’s these days, they get pushed out by the populists. So those intelligent conservatives tend to get tarred with the populist brush.