• Banno
    29.4k


    There's an unacknowledged problem here, to do with "proof".

    A proof is performative - you have one when folk are convinced.

    Or at the least, we ought differentiate proof as demonstratively validity from proof as performative success.

    No argument for the existence of god can be a proof in the first sense because no premise is incontestable.

    Threads such as this - and indeed, 's "Disproving solipsism", and all other such "prove me wrong" attacks (yes, Charlie Kirk was an arse hole) depend on sliding between these two notions of proof.

    The pretence is that one has a demonstrative proof when all one has is performative success within one's echo chamber. This leads to sham accusations of irrationality.

    The disagreement hereabouts concerns the premises, not the validity of the arguments.
  • Corvus
    4.6k
    You can’t say that because you don’t know anything about existence, or God, for that matter.Punshhh

    I know God doesn't exist, because he is nowhere to be seen or heard. I know I exist, because I think. Moreover, I can see me standing and walking, and hear me talking.
  • Punshhh
    3.3k
    I can see me standing and walking, and hear me talking.
    and not knowing much about the world you find yourself in.
  • Corvus
    4.6k
    and not knowing much about the world you find yourself in.Punshhh

    I was not talking about the world. I was talking about me, and God. :)
  • Punshhh
    3.3k
    I was not talking about the world. I was talking about me, and God. :)
    You see yourself standing, walking, listening and talking in the world, don’t you? So surely you can also see yourself not knowing much in the world too?
  • 180 Proof
    16.3k
    No doubt (like sin, miracles, angels/demons, ghosts & the afterlife (e.g. resurrection, reincarnation, spirit world)), "God exists" nowhere else but in the minds of religious believers and other magical thinkers. :sparkle:
  • Corvus
    4.6k
    You see yourself standing, walking, listening and talking in the world, don’t you? So surely you can also see yourself not knowing much in the world too?Punshhh

    The concept of "the world" you are using is unclear. The world can mean the whole universe including the outer galaxies and black holes outside of the earth and solar system. Or the world could mean the earth where human race lives in all the countries. Or the world can mean your own perception and content of mind. Which world were you talking about?
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