Evidence of the breakup in the bromance?

Definitely evidence of collusion between Epstein and others.

It’s crazy to think he was influencing congressional investigations into president Trump through party apparatchiks, literally feeding them talking points. We can watch it happen live. What other ones did he have his dirty hands in? Whatever it is, that’s a romance of an insidious kind.

The house and senate voted to release the so-called Epstein files. I hope we’ll see some good stuff.

Democrat Stacey Plaskett avoided censure for being Epstein’s finger-puppet during an anti-Trump congressional investigation, and will retain her position on the intel committee.

It will all be a democratic conspiracy.

Looks like the "Grand Jury" in the Comey case was actually a grand two people.

At least now, I guess Trump's DOJ has had enough time to destroy all the worst things for Trump in the files.

* * *

Well, Axios has released Trump's "peace plan" for Ukraine. It's even worse than the surrender to the Taliban, which is now I guess the low point of American diplomacy.

From the proposal:

3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries and NATO will not expand further.

4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.

And notice that article 3. isn't about Ukraine, because there's articles 7. and 8:

7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.

8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.

So basically this is a wet dream for Putin. Trump will emasculate the strongest alliance that the US has had ...and Putin will also get Ukraine. This is at least on par (if not worse) than the surrender deal that Trump made with the Taleban (and it should be noted, Biden carried out to the end dutifully).

Why this thread is more apt to review this whimsical action from Trump than the Ukraine thread is that likely (and hopefully) this surrender purposal won't go anywhere.

What an incredible surrender monkey Trump is.

Putin will not get Ukraine. The EU gets Ukraine.

11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.

In fact, if Russia invades again, they face destruction at the hands of NATO and the US.

10. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked;

No matter. If this deal goes through, invasion would be illegal according to Russia’s own laws.

16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.

I suspect that warmongers don’t like the deal because they’ve wasted so much time, money, and human bodies for essentially nothing. I further suspect that the end of this war will mean the final nail in the neoconservative coffin, and the obsolescence of their belligerent alliances.

(and it should be noted, Biden carried out to the end dutifully)

That’s simply untrue. He violated the agreement. The Biden administration said the U.S. would not withdraw the remaining soldiers by May 1st, the date which all parties agreed upon, but would withdraw them by September 11 (a purely symbolic form of deceit). His hubris led directly to the death of US soldiers and the loss of billions and billions and billions in military assets, none of which would have been there had Biden abided by the agreement.

In fact, if Russia invades again, they face destruction at the hands of NATO and the US.

10. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked; — NOS4A2

What bullshit is this "decisive coordinated military response", when a) you cannot train for this and Ukraine cannot be a member or anybody else (like Ireland etc.) cannot join NATO? The emasculation of NATO and Ukraine-NATO ties makes this totally ludicrous statement. Who the fuck will defend Ukraine, when NATO cannot be in Ukraine?

No matter. If this deal goes through, invasion would be illegal according to Russia’s own laws.

16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine. — NOS4A2

HAHAHAA!!! :rofl:

Wait... :brow:

...you are serious??? :worry:

You really believe the country lead by Putin, that has several times, actually, put into writing that it didn't have ANY territorial claims toward Ukraine or Crimea, to have no aggression towards other "artificial" countries like Ukraine? And then there were ALL the Minsk agreements. How much Putin valued those? What horseshit do you believe in???

Above all, read your history: Russia never attacks, it only defends itself. According to Soviet Union, my little country attacked the Soviet Union in 1939, just as the Baltic States wanted to join the Soviet Union in 1940. So the can easily have a hypocrite law that argues they won't attack anybody. Incredible garbage.

And do notice, this is just like Trump surrender deal with the Taliban. That peace-deal also said that:

4. A permanent and comprehensive ceasefire will be an item on the agenda of the intra-Afghan
dialogue and negotiations. The participants of intra-Afghan negotiations will discuss the date
and modalities of a permanent and comprehensive ceasefire, including joint implementation
mechanisms, which will be announced along with the completion and agreement over the future
political roadmap of Afghanistan.

Which the Taleban cared shit about. They didn't even pretend to have talks with Republic of Afghanistan. Did Trump (or Biden) care about that? Of course not. But do notice the evident Trumpian issue on both of the peace-deals. Then in 2020 Trump announced the following in the Taleban surrender-deal:

A comprehensive peace agreement is made of four parts:

1. Guarantees and enforcement mechanisms that will prevent the use of the soil of Afghanistan by
any group or individual against the security of the United States and its allies.
2. Guarantees, enforcement mechanisms, and announcement of a timeline for the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan.

Did he bring up this with the foreign forces, that by 2020 were by manpower a larger force than the US personnel on ground? Of course not! It was just a surprise for them... just like this brainfart. And the same thing is here, where Trump is just demanding actions not only from Ukraine, but European countries too.

South Vietnam, Afghanistan... seems next in line is Ukraine for the US. Or Trump is basically hellbent on Ukraine to be in that category.

Hopefully our leaders keep their calm and handle this as one of those Trump stupidities that comes out from the current White House like the US annexing Greenland and Canada. Trump seems to desperately want that Nobel-prize and one can just imagine what fortunes have the Russians promised to Trump.

Or they promised not to show the photos of Trump blowing Bubba.

Say what you will about Mamdani. but he must a world class ass kisser.

Say what you will about Mamdani. but he must a world class ass kisser. — Wayfarer

Why? Nearly everyone Trump talks to face to face he changes his tune about, even after long online tirades.

My guess here is that you’re one of those who think Mamdani is too “far left” and a gift to the Republicans and can’t possibly accomplish any of his proposals, etc., and that’s skewing your perception.

Otherwise, I don’t see anything out of the ordinary. I’m sure he was respectful, and in return so was Trump.

I think Trump backed down, he really didn’t want to start a war between Washington and New York. He would have lost.

What bullshit is this "decisive coordinated military response", when a) you cannot train for this and Ukraine cannot be a member or anybody else (like Ireland etc.) cannot join NATO? The emasculation of NATO and Ukraine-NATO ties makes this totally ludicrous statement. Who the fuck will defend Ukraine, when NATO cannot be in Ukraine?

“The United States affirms that a significant, deliberate, and sustained armed attack by the Russian Federation across the agreed armistice line into Ukrainian territory shall be regarded as an attack threatening the peace and security of the transatlantic community….

… NATO members, including France, the United Kingdom, Germany, Poland, and Finland, affirm that Ukraine's security is integral to European stability and commit to act in concert with the United States in responding to any qualifying violation, ensuring a unified and credible deterrent posture.”

https://archive.ph/S58Vt

NATO was never masculine. They can hardly move tanks between each other’s countries. Beyond serving as a symbol of American posturing in Europe, the only battles they’ve ever had in their 75 year history was against some pirates. You think they’re going to run in and save the day? Delusional.

Read your history. The Soviet Union doesn’t exist anymore. The Cold War is over.

At any rate, I can’t wait to watch the EU bring out their counterproposal, which will invariably lead to WW3.

NATO was never masculine. They can hardly move tanks between each other’s countries. — NOS4A2

Absolute nonsense. NATO passed with flying colors the role it had during the Cold War of creating a credible deterrence. Hardly can move tanks? LOL.

How about those Reforger exercises? Reforger 88 had about 125 000 men, all deployed to Germany from the US, France, Canada, UK, Denmark. The whole objective of the annual Reforger exercises was the moving of tanks into West Germany. And NATO is finally getting back to it's original role (thank God). Some countries unfortunately ran down their militaries (the 90's peace dividend), luckily that stupidity didn't reach my country. But that era has passed.

At any rate, I can’t wait to watch the EU bring out their counterproposal, which will invariably lead to WW3. — NOS4A2

You don't know or care about what the response is, which is obvious from referring to the EU, not the group actually active in the issue.

Anyway, many think that this peace-deal that Axios published was an intentional move by the Russians to humiliate Trump and harass Ukraine. Naturally Trump doesn't notice, but anyway, who cares. I think this will pass as an example how Trump caves in always to get a peace deal.

* * *

Well, I hope the country you are living in chooses to have Swedish Gripens, just like Ukraine. One absolutely cannot trust Trump and as Americans have now twice voted Trump into power, with the US there is a risk, unfortunately, of it being an untrustworthy ally/weapons provider... when the customer isn't Israel. So I think my country is taking a little risk when choosing the F-35. Not a huge risk, but still.

(CBC, Nov 21st 2025) The Liberal government is reviewing whether to proceed with a full order of 88 F-35 fighters from U.S.-based Lockheed Martin. It has been suggested that Canada could accept the first batch of 16 stealth jets and then pivot to filling out the rest of the order with Saab Gripens — or some other aircraft.

American presence there is the only deterrent Europe has ever had, and the only reason NATO stands any chance. The problem is you all have been taking advantage of the United States taxpayer for far too long without developing any way to defend yourselves. And once that tit is finally pulled away their leaders start to cry while they scramble for answers.

You’re right, I don’t care what the EU response is, because it will invariably contain a bunch of symbolic trash about European ideals before they sentence every Ukrainian to death.

Not new, but neat to see details:

Prominent MAGA Accounts Exposed as Foreign-Run as X Reveals Countries of Origin Feature (— TheWrap via Yahoo · Nov 23, 2025)

Many prominent Maga personalities on X are based outside US, new tool reveals (— Guardian · Nov 23, 2025)

Some of the pro MAGA Twitter accounts outed as foreign agents yesterday (— Edmond Bertrand · Nov 23, 2025)

X's new location feature exposes political accounts based outside the U.S. (— Axios · Nov 24, 2025)

Landsbergis opines...

The 28 point plan marks the end of the end
^{— Landsbergis · 2025 Nov 21}

Imedo opines...

Imagine China occupying half of California, Nevada, Arizona, and Oregon and then the EU telling America:
“Make a deal with the occupier or we won’t support you.”
Absurd, right? No country would accept that.

Yet this is exactly what Ukraine is being told today.

And let’s not forget: Ukraine gave up the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal under U.S. and U.K. security guarantees.
They trusted the West.
Now they’re being pushed to surrender their land to the same aggressor that invaded them.

This isn’t “peacemaking.”
This is betrayal and the world knows it.
— David Imedo (Nov 22, 2025)

Say what you will about Mamdani. but he must a world class ass kisser. — Wayfarer

Trump got nothing out of it, that I can see. GOP had been trying to paint Mandami as a "Communist" and claim this is the direction Democrats are taking. Trump gave the dems soundbights in which Trump praises Mandami's intelligence and that he agees with him on many things. Meanwhile, Mandami did not back off from calling Trump a fascist.

American presence there is the only deterrent Europe has ever had, and the only reason NATO stands any chance. The problem is you all have been taking advantage of the United States taxpayer for far too long without developing any way to defend yourselves.

Drinking the Kool aid again, I see.

American presence there is the only deterrent Europe has ever had, and the only reason NATO stands any chance. The problem is you all have been taking advantage of the United States taxpayer for far too long without developing any way to defend yourselves. And once that tit is finally pulled away their leaders start to cry while they scramble for answers. — NOS4A2

Drinking the Kool aid again, I see. — Punshhh

Yep. This is the Trumpian bullshit rhetoric people like NOS4A2 believe.

France and UK have their own nuclear deterrents, so they are out of the question here (France was even out of NATO for a while). West Germany has been quite supervised about just what kind of military to have. For example with my country, the US was long against us having surface to air missiles or any modern fighter aircraft. Perhaps just assuming that we would be a likely axis with Russia. So that's what the US actually offered us during the Cold War: no security guarantees, likely just tactical nukes on the Northern airfields in order that the Soviets couldn't use them.

Above all, because of the Superpower status and the alliances, the US has been in the leadership role enjoying all the perks that come from that because of the vast alliances it has. Without these alliances, the US president would be a totally minor person at the World stage and the dollar wouldn't have the position enjoys. Someone like the prime minister of Canada. China's economy is big too, but do we follow what the Chinese leader has lately said? Of course not!

This is the thing that many Americans are totally ignorant of and seem to be totally incapable of understanding. The dollar has it's reserve role because of political reasons, not because of economic reasons. Without the US having the Superpower status and it's relations it would be just the largest currency in a basket of currencies, but definitely not the reserve currency. The UK pound never enjoyed this kind of role before when the British Empire was at it's greatest. Such role is only understandable only because of political reasons. Yet this is something never told to Trump loving Americans, who are spoon fed the lie all the time that their Superpower status hasn't been very good for them, that it's been a sucker deal for them. That somehow because they just have the biggest economy, their currency is the reserve currency and thus they can just print more money without any worries.

Apart from the CDC stuff, I haven't confirmed this report:

Partnership for Public Service releases new resources measuring the impact of President Trump’s federal government reforms during first 100 days
^{— Partnership for Public Service · Apr 29, 2025}

If true, DOGE is quite the fiasco.

Trump's mass layoff threat drives US government workers to resign
^{— Reuters · May 20, 2025}

Yes people like NOS4A2, don’t realise that it was their involvement in Europe and other spheres around the world which gave the US it’s dominance and superpower status. Now that they have become unreliable and untrustworthy their power will shrink, leaving a void for China to fill. Europe will now re-arm and keep Russia at bay without help from the U.S. Help which was offered in the knowledge that it was vital for the US interests in the fight against communism. That is why the U.S. remained a strong force in Europe, because they saw themselves as the defender of the free world against the spread of communism. This was their project, not a demand from Europe for them to provide security.

Now that they have become unreliable and untrustworthy their power will shrink, leaving a void for China to fill. — Punshhh

I'm not sure if China will fill anything in Europe, but it already has filled a large role in Asia and Africa. The issue really is that nothing will replace the Superpower US, it will just leave a huge void, which will create a large whirlpool. (Which actually, already has happened in the Middle East).

Europe will now re-arm and keep Russia at bay without help from the U.S. — Punshhh

Hope that this will happen. The other alternative is that some European will just "Finlandize" towards Russia, like Hungary and Serbia.

This was their project, not a demand from Europe for them to provide security. — Punshhh

This is the irony so evident in the ignorance and the obvious cluelessness of Trump supporters. The project was for the US itself. Yet I think past administrations are partly guilty of this because the whole foreign policy hasn't been marketed correctly to Americans, only basically with fear of enemies that "hate everything American".

I'm guessing that Rubio is rehearsing excuses periodically

State Department to identify DEI policies and mass migration as ‘human rights infringements’
^{— CNN · Nov 21, 2025}

I think F.D signifier breaks things down better than any of us have succeeded in exposing exactly what is going on with US politics and where the right is at today. I would call it an obligatory watch in order to understand the psychology behind much of what is happening.

It's all interconnected, it's not different topics, it's one and the same. It's Immortan Joe and his war boys. It's the radicalization by abandonment and false promises all within an algorithm that traps white men into a feedback loop until they die, socially or literally.

People need to see the bigger picture here. To not get bogged down by details obscuring the overarching problem of our modern condition.

Europe has been fighting itself for thousands and thousands of years, and not even that long ago. Hell, they were doing genocide there not more than 30 years ago. The entire union is essentially a rogues gallery of states. It was Europe that invented fascism and communism, and spread them worldwide. We don’t even need to speak of the travesty of European colonialism.

I never said it was a demand from Europe for the US to provide security, like what you and @ssu seem to believe. What I said was you all have been taking advantage of the United States taxpayer for far too long without developing any way to defend yourselves. The EU gave itself the Nobel peace prize for providing peace to the region, even though they’ve been milking US military presence. So Europe obviously doesn’t need the help to maintain their defense anyways, and I would like nothing better than get out of that blood-soaked continent.

I would call it an obligatory watch in order to understand the psychology behind much of what is happening. — Christoffer

Of course the US state would pressure Google to take it down, though there's nothing in that video that warrants censorship. It will be up and running soon enough. People are so on the edge in front of Trump's guns right now that it's hard not to call it anything other than a fascist state.

Europe has been fighting itself for thousands and thousands of years, and not even that long ago. Hell, they were doing genocide there not more than 30 years ago. The entire union is essentially a rogues gallery of states. It was Europe that invented fascism and communism, and spread them worldwide. We don’t even need to speak of the travesty of European colonialism. — NOS4A2

If you add Russia to Europe, which I would do, this is totally true. Russia is the most clearest example of European colonialism and imperialism. And the last pure example of it, I would add.

The real tragedy is that Soviet leaders did peacefully handle the collapse of the Empire, but then our famous KGB officer that was picked to lead Russia after Yeltsin thought this was the biggest tragedy of the 20th Century and sees that the Russian Empire is the natural state of Russia (and thus countries like Ukraine are artificial).

I never said it was a demand from Europe for the US to provide security, like what you and ssu seem to believe. — NOS4A2

Nobody has said that. What we try to say that the US has benefited from role it has enjoyed.

What I said was you all have been taking advantage of the United States taxpayer for far too long without developing any way to defend yourselves. — NOS4A2

Says the guy who isn't an US taxpayer. No, what you simply don't understand that the US has benefited from being the security guarantor, the Superpower. That most valuable thing that has come from this role has been the US dollar being the reserve currency. No other great power has enjoyed the situation of the currency they print being the universal reserve currency. If the US would have chosen again the "Splendid isolation" after WW2, the West would have gone with Bancor. It's pure insanity and total ignorance to believe that the role of the US dollar as the reserve currency would just somehow descend from Heaven to the US because it was afterwards the biggest economy.

The other perk from being that Superpower is that countries listen to the US, which they wouldn't if the US had no alliances.

But somehow you don't get the above and go on with the Trumpian populism.

If you add Russia to Europe, which I would do, this is totally true. Russia is the most clearest example of European colonialism and imperialism. And the last pure example of it, I would add.

I live in Canada and recently watched the Prime Minister pledge allegiance to the King of England and his heirs during his inauguration. Lawyers and judges bow or curtsy towards a picture of King Charles when they enter and leave a courtroom. Russia could only dream of such fealty.

Says the guy who isn't an US taxpayer. No, what you simply don't understand that the US has benefited from being the security guarantor, the Superpower. That most valuable thing that has come from this role has been the US dollar being the reserve currency. No other great power has enjoyed the situation of the currency they print being the universal reserve currency. If the US would have chosen again the "Splendid isolation" after WW2, the West would have gone with Bancor. It's pure insanity and total ignorance to believe that the role of the US dollar as the reserve currency would just somehow descend from Heaven to the US because it was afterwards the biggest economy.

I am a US taxpayer. I have to file my income tax with the IRS every single year.

I never said nor implied the US never benefited. Indeed, clipping the wings of European war-mongering might have benefited the entire world. But this arraignment has allowed NATO countries to forget about their duty to defend themselves, to spend less tax dollars on militaries, and to spend the money they saved for their own benefit and no one else’s—and all while maintaining that air of European superiority.

I wonder if the assumption that everybody needs a standing army in peacetime is a result of our recent heritage. It took the US a two year ramp up to become effective during WW2. But now we're all supposed to be ready to destroy Moscow at a moment's notice with nuclear armed subs, bombers, ICBMs, medium range missiles. WTF?