• Astorre
    346
    I get your OP. But I sense a dread and weariness in you, like a solo traveler in a jungle of information and online presence.L'éléphant

    Not at all. This post is a reflection on the external world, but I found solutions for myself long ago. And I live quite well with the understanding that the world isn't cause and effect. This is perhaps a little more difficult. But it's not bad at all. However, I believe it requires sufficient maturity, and I wouldn't recommend it to others.

    Take this with a grain of salt: have faith in those with a conviction to do it right with the world. It is true, individually, we are not mighty, but with a community of experts, scientists, mathematicians and statisticians, specialist, philosophy scholars, and sociologists who work during the hours we are asleep, we are in good hands.L'éléphant

    I'm probably too corrupted to view it that way. But I like it. It's a completely different matter when others believe and continue to get burned. I sincerely feel sorry for them, but I can't help them either.

    The idea of ​​this post is diagnostic. It would be interesting to hear other people's opinions on the existence of such a problem in society. I offered this perspective. Other contemporary philosophers offer theirs. Well, well. But sometimes it seems to me that all this is about the same thing.
  • baker
    5.9k
    My concern was more existential than transcendental: how, in the wake of the collapse of shared cosmic narratives, lived significance is actually sustained or whether it decays into nihilism. In that sense, I wasn’t claiming that meaning is constructed from nothing, but that historically we now inhabit conditions where the background structures that once stabilized meaning have broken down and is often experienced as “nothing matters.”Wayfarer

    No. This is simply the thought process of an ostracized or otherwise incompetent person.

    For starters, there is no "we", there is no universal human solidarity in the problem you describe. Rightwingers, religious people, and psychologists will say that the above is simply your personal problem, not something shared by all of humanity. Existential incompetence is not a universal human trait. Even if perhaps many people are thusly existentially incompetent, this merely means that many people are thusly existentially incompetent, and nothing more. Even if 99% of the population were thusly existentially incompetent, it still wouldn't be a universal human trait, because human traits are not devised based on statistics, but based on ideas.


    For the first time in history, an external, universal, generally accepted authority (God, Reason, Inevitable Progress) has disappeared, one that would say, "None of this is accidental; it's all part of a greater, meaningful plan."Astorre
    See above.

    Can you give one reason why what you're talking about shouldn't be considered simply your personal problem?
  • Astorre
    346
    See above.

    Can you give one reason why what you're talking about shouldn't be considered simply your personal problem?
    baker

    Similar to my previous response to you in another thread: I suggest you consider this not as truth or a claim to truth, but as a lens that may or may not have some explanatory power. And just as in the previous thread, the problem I'm naming (and even calling it a problem) doesn't affect me much: it's purely a philosophical reflection.
  • Philosophim
    3.3k
    Perhaps mathematicians and physicists are taught differently, but when talking to my contemporaries and reading posts on this forum, I notice that society’s idea of quantum mechanics or relativity is more like “oh, just another more precise formula” rather than “guys, actually reality is arranged radically differently.”Astorre

    It is best not to take the general viewpoints of people who are not in the field or can cite the exact background. Many higher level ideas are captured and watered down into concepts that are palatable to the average person.

    1. A problem has one correct answer.
    2. Facts are objective.
    3. The world is linear, comprehensible and obeys rules.
    Astorre

    You also shouldn't take children's textbooks as a basis for good education. Even in the ancient world there were multiple solutions to a problem. Part of the art of geometry is finding multiple means to find different solutions.

    Facts are still objective. If someone is telling you that something subjective is a fact, they're simply wrong.

    The world still is linear. Time travel has not happened yet, the point has been to approach the world with the intent to comprehend it, and rules are written claims of that comprehension. Carl Popper born in 1902, a key contributer to the modern day scientific method always took the approach that what is known should be falsifiable, and that new knowledge could come along and change our comprehension of the world.

    But the world we live in keeps showing us that something is wrong.Astorre

    Nothing is wrong. Most people are just average as they've always been. Most people don't know of or understand Descartes "Medititations". Most aren't physicists or mathematicians, and their world does not require precision or complete understanding.

    Based on what I’ve seen, I have identified the following groupsAstorre

    None of these are new. These types of people have existed since the human race began.

    For them, reality has always been fluid, multiple, controlled attention. They wonder why seniors cling to "facts" and "logic" when it's obvious that the world works differently.Astorre

    This has always been the case. Galileo was tried by the church because he supported the Copernican model of the Earth revolving around the sun. There will always be people who follow logic, science, and defy the social order. There will always be idiots who try them. There will always be people who do not fully understand them. The discoveries and claims of these individuals may not even be of any important to most people of their time. Did the average town person care that the Sun was at the center of the universe? Didn't exactly feed their family one way or another.

    If you say to him: "There is no truth, everything depends on your point of view," he will not become a philosopher. He will lose his mind or become a cynical beast. A terrible fork is obtained:Astorre

    That's because this is a stupid saying. To state, "There is no truth," you are asserting truth. There will always be stupid and short sighted people who claim truth to things that objectively make no sense. Just point it out and ignore them.

    • We dont leave the old education: We release people with a "solid" consciousness into a "liquid" world. They are looking for stability, which is not there. They break down, facing the chaos of society and the market. They feel cheated.Astorre

    The stability and rational view of the world are there. The frustration is often in the fact that most other people don't care. Living rationally is not a natural outcome, it is a choice that someone must actively make in the temptation of competing pressures from people who are not rational.

    It may very well be that the old education is the only thing that keeps today's world from falling apart.Astorre

    It is not the 'old' education. It is education which is logical, clear in thought, and seeks proof over ego and self-assurance in one's viewpoint of the world. It has never gone out of style because its never been in style. Very few people are able to have the education, training, and fortitude to hold actual rationality as the standard to approach the world. Most of us use rationalization, or 'explanations that make us feel like we are justified in our view points'. This has never changed.

    So don't worry too much! The world will be the same as it always has, the question is whether you will take up the mantle of being rational in the face of a world which often is not. Nothing is coming to an end and we are not losing our way. The world has always been like this.
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