I was referring to an argument made in a particular book. Phillips would be the last to dismiss slavery as not being critical to the moment he reports upon. He does not argue that the generational elements he is interested in are the last word on what happened.

I started my comments on this thread pointing out how religious thinking can sharply oppose what others adopt. I will leave it there.

The landlord had a paternalistic relationship with the people living on the land, which traces back to Rome and the importance of the Father, and is related to our Father in heaven. — Athena

I think this is probably an unfinished analysis. The desire for paternal connection (and protection, let's not forget) appears inherent in any culture, because it must remain stable. This then get abused in situations of coercive control (even some modern work arrangements fit this bill). But I don't think it's fair to lay the human desire shown in that type of arrangement contextually derives from the concept of God. Perhaps, the other way around makes more sense as at some point, there are no men who can protect you from certain beasts or hostile out-tribes.

But it certainly seems like at times, this was a motivating factor in thinking it was some benevolent activity for sure!

@Athena A bit more on Yankees.

AI Overview

Yankee cultural influence, originating from New England and spreading through the Great Lakes region, profoundly shaped American society by establishing core values of education, entrepreneurship, Protestant work ethic, and civic activism. This "Yankeedom" culture emphasized public order, moral reform, and infrastructure development, largely influencing the Midwest, Northern, and "Left Coast" regions. 
Key impacts on American culture include:
* Values and Ethics: A strong emphasis on personal responsibility, hard work, frugality, and a "utopian streak" that promotes societal improvement.
* Education and Infrastructure: A commitment to universal education and public infrastructure, dating back to early town-meeting systems.
* Political Culture: A high degree of public participation, support for government regulation, and a belief in a "public interest" that transcends individual ambition.
* Reform and Mobility: A history of applying moral logic to social issues (e.g., abolitionism) and a focus on social mobility, though sometimes criticized for inflexibility or Puritanical intolerance.
* Regional Expansion: The, Northern Michigan University documents how Yankee settlers moved westward, bringing with them specific, Northern Michigan University cultural, Northern Michigan University traits,. 

Search for 'influence of yankee culture on ...", like Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Michigan; search for "yankee empire".

JSTOR has some articles on the topic, like Yankees and Teutons in Milwaukee, 1850 - 1890.

There is so much to learn! — Athena

I have an order in for the brain implant that will allow me to have an Internet feed into my brain, plus an AI account, Library of Congress feed, and so on.

Thanks -- I'm seen Albion's Seed on Amazon and have thought of getting it. Thanks also for the Kevin Phillips tip.

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I was referring to an argument made in a particular book. Phillips would be the last to dismiss slavery as not being critical to the moment he reports upon. He does not argue that the generational elements he is interested in are the last word on what happened.

I started my comments on this thread pointing out how religious thinking can sharply oppose what others adopt. I will leave it there. — Paine

I was thinking that the problem with serfdom and slavery is the same problem, and to me, it seems cheating to use different words for basically the same thing. Socrates said that when people are exploited, sooner or later, they become a problem to those who exploit them.

Also, I think when we add God to the equation, the thought is 100 times more important. That is what made the American Civil War so dreadful. Both sides thought they were fighting for God. Both sides used the Bible to defend their position. You cannot get a stronger opposition than that.

I have an order in for the brain implant that will allow me to have an Internet feed into my brain, plus an AI account, Library of Congress feed, and so on. — BC

:lol: Good luck with that. :up:

JSTOR has some articles on the topic, like Yankees and Teutons in Milwaukee, 1850 - 1890. — BC

I really like JSTOR as a source of information. Those values seem influenced by the Enlightenment, ancient Greek, and Roman values. I believe that in the beginning of Rome, those who were Roman were very civic-minded. But as the population grew, I think, as happened in the US, people became self-centered and less community-oriented. Around 1830, Tocqueville wrote in Democracy in America that the people came together to resolve problems rather than relying on the king and his men. Starting a new establishment and living in one are two very different things.

those who were Roman were very civic-minded. But as the population grew, I think, as happened in the US, people became self-centered and less community-oriented — Athena

Rome was in business a long time; when do you think this change took place, and why? Same for the US. Europeans have been here for 500 years, give or take 15 minutes. When did we start getting self-centered, and why?

While I will readily grant that the zeitgeist changes over time, members of our species approach each shift with the same basic features. We always manage to be short sighted, self-centered, helpful, generous, vindictive, aggressive, loving, well-organized and chaotic, smart and stupid -- all that and more all at once. The zeitgeist is both a product of our efforts and an influence on us--it's circular.