Yes, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. What is masculine is what men do. Men, masculine men, sometimes wear make up, and skirts and heels and have sex with other men. Therefore that is masculine behaviour. Occasionally they castrate themselves, that is masculine behaviour. Sometimes they shave and sometimes they grow a set, and both are masculine behaviour.
In short, let the images and stereotypes follow you, rather than feeling you ought to follow them, let alone that you ought to oblige another to follow them on pain of being stabbed and burned. That too is masculine behaviour, but more to the point, it is repulsive behaviour. — unenlightened
So, is it a deficiency in some emotion or feeling that causes (predominantly) men the need to express or display their masculinity in such a manner and way or is it an excess of some sort? How does one guide men to tame these animalistic spirits. Heck, I doubt animals are capable of such deeds and actions. — Posty McPostface
Well yes, I think you have it about right. Shall we say that a perceived deficiency, measured according to a faulty image of masculinity, leads to an exaggerated performance of the image, which is itself already exaggerated, and so to an excessive demand that others also perform to support the image? I think this is the best explanation of homophobia and the like - that even the possibility that another can deviate from the image is a threat to one's whole being. Thus, not to join in with the gauging and burning is to fail the image of masculinity. — unenlightened
It is perhaps in pointing out the weakness, the effeminacy, the sheeplike nature of such behaviour, that one might hope to guide others to have the strength to resist the images that are purveyed by society and the media. — unenlightened
I may have used the wrong word. What would you count them as? Social-constructs? — Posty McPostface
Is there really a difference between expressing a belief masked as a social construct and on the other hand displaying it? — Posty McPostface
Then what is it?
Some unconscious process? — Posty McPostface
How do you know that? — Posty McPostface
You can't have it all ways -- that masculinity is a sickness, instinctual, and a social construct -- because the causation is quite different, like social norms vs. biological instinct. — Bitter Crank
First, that masculinity is a social construct... Style is socially constructed, certainly. The style in which some men present themselves--powerful, woman-abusing, insensitive--is one construction. — Bitter Crank
I would say that masculinity is a natural acquisitive strategy that is predisposed to be chosen because of the average asymmetry in physical strength between men and women. The mimetic behavior of children quickly leads them into conflict when they imitate the other's acquisitive behavior for the same object (which obviously both can't possess). Men learn that "masculinity" or physical violence (or at least the threat of it) can get them what they want. Women learn that "femininity" or non-physical forms of violence (manipulation, whether through beauty or otherwise) can get them what they want while avoiding their weakness (lack of physical strength).'Masculinity' is a sickness, it is a pathology stemming from a self-defeating desire that mirrors a distorted and imaginative ideal saturated by the influence of fear. — TimeLine
You want to be a leader, for example, act masculine (to a degree). — Baden
but, with masculinity, it goes to the deeper level of some sense of insecurity about one's self. — Posty McPostface
Thus, violence is paradoxically the means through which the escalation of violence is brought to a halt. That is the fundamental trait of all human culture, society, and religion - the resolution of conflict and the establishment of order through violence, which is then effaced and projected unto a victim - oh it was her who didn't like him, she liked me. — Agustino
Yes it's a very deep root of identity. The self is made of such images, and being imaginary at root, is always insecure. This insecurity is intolerable, and 'un-masculine'. And so one acts masculine. — unenlightened
But one only has to act (as if) one was something, to the extent one is not that thing. If men are masculine, they do not have to act; if some men are more masculine than others, neither have to act. — unenlightened
Folks act to escape what they are, which is futile, painful and self-destructive. — unenlightened
Have a dick by all means, be a dick if that's what you are, but for God's sake don't feel obliged to act like a dick. — unenlightened
In the first message, Khrushchev said this: "We and you ought not to pull on the ends of a rope which you have tied the knots of war. Because the more the two of us pull, the tighter the knot will be tied. And then it will be necessary to cut that knot, and what that would mean is not for me to explain to you. I have participated in two wars and know that war ends when it has rolled through cities and villages, everywhere sowing death and destruction. For such is the logic of war. If people do not display wisdom, they will clash like blind moles and then mutual annihilation will commence."
Bah. When you say 'leader', I think you mean 'figurehead' - an image stuck at the prow of the boat - rather than the guy in the stern with his hand on the tiller. You want to be a leader, start steering the right course. — unenlightened
But one only has to act (as if) one was something, to the extent one is not that thing. If men are masculine, they do not have to act; if some men are more masculine than others, neither have to act. Folks act to escape what they are, which is futile, painful and self-destructive. Have a dick by all means, be a dick if that's what you are, but for God's sake don't feel obliged to act like a dick — unenlightened
I would say that masculinity is a natural acquisitive strategy that is predisposed to be chosen because of the average asymmetry in physical strength between men and women. The mimetic behavior of children quickly leads them into conflict when they imitate the other's acquisitive behavior for the same object (which obviously both can't possess). — Agustino
Men learn that "masculinity" or physical violence (or at least the threat of it) can get them what they want. Women learn that "femininity" or non-physical forms of violence (manipulation, whether through beauty or otherwise) can get them what they want while avoiding their weakness (lack of physical strength). — Agustino
For example, two men may like the same women, and the more one of them likes her, the more the other will like her (because they imitate each other). If one of them is more masculine than the other (they have bigger muscles, more money, etc.) then they will use violence to get the woman for themselves. And the violence in our day is mostly invisible - only the unspoken threat of it is sufficient. Simply being bulkier, having more money, etc. is enough to convince the double. — Agustino
...which is then effaced and projected unto a victim - oh it was her who didn't like him, she liked me. — Agustino
It isn't entirely subjective. Whether someone is the stronger or weaker party is an objective fact. Say someone has a gun and the other person has a knife, the one with the gun is objectively stronger in most situations, even if he's a coward compared to the other one. Sure there is the extreme situation wherein he is such a coward that he cannot wield the gun well enough, but that's not what I'm talking about here.To attribute physical predispositions to masculinity is a mistake; as mentioned, many men work very hard to convey this physical image and character as 'tough' but the experience of masculinity is entirely subjective — TimeLine
That may be so, but that's only one aspect of masculinity.I may be female, feminine and small in stature, but I have 'bigger balls' then most men — TimeLine
It does mean that you have some masculine traits while lacking others.If I am absolute in my dedication to righteousness that I would turn my back even on the closest of people if they committed evils, if I believe in honour, integrity that has become a part of the fabric of my personality, if I endure in the face of severe hardship and apply methods to strengthen my fearlessness and courage, does that mean - despite the fact that I possess feminine physical attributes and that I am naturally petite and quiet in nature - that I am masculine? — TimeLine
LOL! I would say that that guy looks quite the opposite of masculine :P . You need to differentiate between masculinity as an objective fact and masculinity as a social construct. That guy may be thought of as masculine but the objective facts of the situation betray that he's not. It may be possible that for whatever reason females within a certain culture prefer a guy looking like that, but this cannot change the underlying reality. In this case, the said females would merely be deceived by what constitutes masculinity. And such states are artificial and will not last in the end.At the moment, this so-called masculine look is very popular where I am from: — TimeLine
Because human beings are mimetic animals, meaning that our desires are not really our own but are acquired from others.The worst part about it is that every guy who now has this look thinks he is original. How exactly is it possible for people to think they are independent and individual when they are doing what everyone else is doing? — TimeLine
We have to act. Period. In doing so we are necessarily acting as if we are something because we are something, something that is both a result of and a cause of our actions. — Baden
We have to act. Period. In doing so we are necessarily acting as something because we are something, something that is both a result of and a cause of our actions. — unenlightened
... it's just as futile to pretend that you can't be more than you are at least to some degree. — Baden
I would say that that guy looks quite the opposite of masculine :P . — Agustino
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