Drugs are a cheap substitute to feeling alive — Maytane Winner

So what is your drug experience?

We really need a facepalm emoticon. — TimeLine

Use it in the mirror it will do you some good.
Alternatively get a life and drop a tab of acid.

Drugs are a cheap substitute to feeling alive — Maytane Winner

I think the intention here is not to suggest that drugs are inexpensive, but that they are morally "cheap". But if one is indeed not "feeling alive" - not quite sure what that means but I assume it is something very unpleasant, then I fail to see how drug use is immoral just because it happens to alleviate that "problem".

So, drugs give people an escape from their own selves. — Maytane Winner

Some drugs maybe. Other drugs tend to amplify - including one's disquiet with oneself or other things,

Drugs are many things, but they are amoral.

Recreational drugs are no more an escape than a film, comedy, or a drink down the pub.
Most people that like to moralise about drugs tend to have no experience of them.
They are not any substitute, but can be a great way to re-set your perspective; and provide a fresh outlook.

What's you point about the 1930s propaganda?

Perhaps that the propaganda was more successful than we might imagine.

Is that why you posted it? It's risible. Hippies used to watch it for fun in the 1960s, it's like one of those Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, of Plan 9 From Outer Space turkeys. Have you actually seen it?

I actually just thought it was funny. Haven't seen the movie. I think the leader is enough.

It's hilarious. it's enough to reassure you how harmless pot REALLY is, as you kind of loose complete faith in the government's attempts to demonise it.

Pot has been a great stimulus to help consider alternative opinions. And its something I would heartily recommend those that think they are open minded on this Forum.
As an artist is has enhanced my imagination to improved my output. — charleton

I agree with both of these, as benefits of pot usage. Perhaps by slightly altering your mind it opens your mind to alternative perspectives. It seems to assist the power of empathy.

MDMA Xtasy really does that. After a course of E's I found myself more understanding of others emotional position months and years after I stopped taking it.

MDMA Xtasy really does that. After a course of E's I found myself more understanding of others emotional position months and years after I stopped taking it. — charleton

When you say that "MDMA really does that", you have plenty of back up to your assertion for MDMA is in it's final trial stage of controlled studies, on it's path to being made available by prescription by 2021.

No I have first hand experience, and testimonies from dozens of people of my acquaintance. Drop a tab and you will know immediately. This is a complete no brainer.

No I have first hand experience, and testimonies from dozens of people of my acquaintance. Drop a tab and you will know immediately. This is a complete no brainer. — charleton

I had an inkling that you had first hand experience but I did not want to cite you doing something that maybe you, yourself had not. As far as "testimonies" from people of your acquaintance? I do not doubt what you say or what people you have talked to have reported. I have an appreciation for what people say, especially if they are being truthful, which I believe you are being.

Having said that, I find myself in an unfamiliar position because my reply to you was agreeing with what you had said and I was offering the citation for the assertions you were making, strengthening the idea that MDMA should be legalized and noting the fact that it is in the final stage of study, before being approved by the FDA, for prescribing to patients for the qualifying conditions.

But your blanket response that
"Drop a tab and you will know immediately. This is a complete no brainer" scares the living life out of me. And I am fully aware as to what the effects of MDMA can possibly have in the short term and what might be the possible long term effects, both from literary research as well as a mental library, overflowing with "testimonies" of "acquaintances.

Here is the difference and please make note of it: You have ingested MDMA and I have not. Before you are tempted to classify what I am saying as an: irrelevant conclusion, let me explain what scares me.

I have been told by what I consider the best of friends that I should never do MDMA or acid and when I asked why, my question was dismissed by saying they needed a sober person there in the event of an event. So I bought that logic in my early 20's since I was unable to drink as well, I had become accustomed to being the designated driver.

After giving birth to my second child, my Doctor said that I should probably stop at two children, as both pregnancies threw me into such a depression, he didn't want me to risk the drain that another pregnancy would put on my mental well being. I took his words as rule and stopped at two children.

Fast forward to about five years ago when MDMA surfaced as a topic again within my group of friends and I said what others had said some 20 years ago and it resonated with them, to the point that they said that maybe I shouldn't do it now. I asked why and my best guy friend said in the most genuine way possible that "Tiff you have a loose enough grip on reality that it is probably best to skip this drug." I was shocked not by what he had the courage to say but what others had been unwilling to say over my life. That my mental well being is fragile enough, that is what my Doctor was saying, that is what my friends were saying and now I have accepted that as fact, even though I am still tempted to try it.

And I have said all of that because the idea that anyone should ever suggest that "Drop a tab and you will know immediately. This is a complete no brainer" scares the living life out of me. Had I run into you on a forum and took your advice and went with the "complete no brainer" my guess is that I would not have had the same experience as you, with the possible, likely probable, negative experience in the short term and likely in the long term.

Since you believe your friend's observation that you have a loose grip on reality, there might be a reason that you do.
MDMA is not psychotropic in the way LSD or heroin is, however, but simply increases your empathy. I do not consider an increase in reality as a challenge to a conception of reality, but a emotional response to people around you.
I'm not going to recommend it to you if you think that about yourself, nonetheless, as I don't know you personally. But I still think the drug is relatively harmless against, say, valium, oxycodeine, or many other prescription drugs. The only other question is, since not regulated, would you actually be taking the real stuff, being cooked up by persons unknown?

What drugs do you take, and how do they affect you?

&@Charleton : Prof Nutt in the UK supervised a Channel 4 documentary in which people took MDMA and they were brain scanned & interviewed or whatever. It proved an important experiment, because one person out of the 20 or so participants had a negative reaction, which suprised the prof. It seems MDMA is not a failsafe guarantee of a happy experience, though it seems only a small minority of people don't like it. As the profs say.. "more research (money!) is needed..."

.

Since you believe your friend's observation that you have a loose grip on reality, there might be a reason that you do.
MDMA is not psychotropic in the way LSD or heroin is, however, but simply increases your empathy. I do not consider an increase in reality as a challenge to a conception of reality, but a emotional response to people around you. — charleton

To be genuine with you, I am by nature, a very empathetic person and maybe that is what is a factor in why I shouldn't participate.

I'm not going to recommend it to you if you think that about yourself, nonetheless, as I don't know you personally. — charleton

If I think that about myself....if I think that about myself.... hmmmm I am digesting what you have reflected back to me and I will have to think about it. If that is really what I think about myself in this regard.

But I still think the drug is relatively harmless against, say, valium, oxycodeine, or many other prescription drugs. The only other question is, since not regulated, would you actually be taking the real stuff, being cooked up by persons unknown? — charleton

Quality control will take over once under the umbrella of the FDA. Until then, I am fairly convinced with the test kits to test the purity of the MDMA found in the recreational arena.

What drugs do you take, and how do they affect you? — charleton

The list is long and the affects are many so I shall stick to my experience of illicit drugs tried and some that you mention for now.

First introduction of an Opiate was when I was 15 and had my tonsils removed. Mom administered, Mom controlled but check the box for first experience.
Second induction of an Opiate was at the Dentist following a root canal when I was prescribed 30 Percocet. The affect was a warm cottony feeling cushioning my brain and relieving all pain.

Second drug tried was Methamphetamine, never paid for it because of my friends, friends who were 20 years my senior. I loved Meth! I loved the sense of invincibility, I loved that I never had to eat or sleep, I loved it so much that I stayed awake for about a year straight. Then as it always does, shit came crashing down and I was left with a choice. Get myself off Meth (a gram a day just to function) by myself or lose the remaining family that loved me. Which also meant giving up ALL of my "friends" in order to get myself off the Meth because they were go fast friends and I was trying to re-enter my life I had carelessly left behind. I weaned myself down to a grain of rice a day before I stopped completely. It took me 5 days of living hell before I could even muster up an hour of awake time without any Meth.

Back to more days of Opiates when I would get stressed, my mouth would throb in one tooth or another so back to the dentist for some more Percocet's.
Followed by a severe gel candle fire that caused 2 and 3rd degree burns to my left hand which had to be debrided twice a day for 30 days. I had to numb up with 2 Percocet's with each debridement in order to tolerate the pain.

Finally I broke my back in a high speed, high impact horseback riding accident. I was at the hospital for 4 days with Morphine controlling my pain as surgery was not an option and it was just going to take time to heal, 6 months to heal. In order to go home I had to get off the Morphine which was easy as they converted me over to OxyContin. For the next 2.5 years I was addicted to OxyContin and the next 2.5 years was spent seeing an Addiction/Pain Management Specialist who saved my life by prescribing Suboxone which at that time, he was allowed to have 30 patients total on Suboxone at one time under his care. From my last microdose of Suboxone to the day of my first Dopamine Dump was 45 days. Fourty five days of functioning at 10% of regular life, laying in bed motionless to keep the pain under control. Once I made it though to the other side of Opiate addiction, I swore on my life not to ever be there again. Slaying the Opiate dragon is not an easy thing to do and so now I just say I am allergic to Opiates and all it's cousins. I have instructed those close to me, to not leave my side and check all medications in the event of an accident that leaves me unable to state my decision to not have any Opiates introduced.

Which leaves me with one form of pain control and that is Medical Cannabis. I have had to use it for oral surgery recovery and RSO is what works for me. I dread the day that I am at the mercy of the medical community respecting my choice to not use Opiates.

How about yourself?

My first drug was tobacco which i was hooked on at age 11. That time there was still a lot of denial about its carcinogenic effects.
By the time I was 21 I had had my fair share of alcohol which I also started early, buying pints of beer at the local pub at age 16. And that is also when I had my intro to hashish.
Reaching 21 and finding my self in the smog of LA my lungs packed up and so I gave up smoking tobacco, but was still able to tolerate joints made with pure marijuana.
Alcohol never interested me that much, but Pot was a friend for years, and have tried it as oil, hast, bush, bud, you name it. I also tried speed, and one or two prescription drugs like valium for fun.
In the autumn we all used to enjoy freshly picked Psilocybin mushrooms when I could get them.
Over the years I've tried opium, crack and coke. None of which I have liked enough to risk addiction to.
Eight years ago i was diagnosed with tonsil cancer stage 4A. I suffered from extensive radiotherapy and chemotherapy which caused a lot of distress and pain. Tramadol and Morphine were the chosen pain killers, both opiates. I did get dependant on Tramadol and coming off them caused whole body spasms, but it did not last too long. When the neck pain gets too bad I sometimes take one with a strong inflammatory - by try not to do this more than once at week at most.
Smoking has been the worst for addiction, and that despite giving up for ten years, stupidly started again, with the addiction as strong as ever immediately. I gave up again 12 years ago, and will never smoke again, after having cancer.
I can happily say that I am not addicted to any drug. Even when in pain I can take them or leave them as I wish. Mindful management is the key here; and setting basic rules for yourself.

Yeah I saw it. I was funny that the guy who everyone thought would like it, was the one guy that did not. Keith Allen is a well known contrarian god-shite though. He'd argue against it just to be bloody minded.