Best case scenario - Trump resigns as President and the Government agrees not to pursue him further provided he walks away from politics and goes back to his real job.

Won’t happen, but we can always wish. — Wayfarer

Or, Trump resigns (or is removed) and the Government pursues him further to determine if he's committed any crimes, and if so charge him.

And then Obama becomes President again.

Obama could never become President again, he’s not eligible to stand. Whatever happens is going to be pretty awful, I suspect.

Obama could never become President again — Wayfarer

I thought we were going with the "won’t happen, but we can always wish".

I thought we were going with the "won’t happen, but we can always wish". — Michael

A day later and in a fluke accident at an NRA rally, every rabid gun-toting redneck dies horribly of self-inflicted gun wounds.

That'd be a large proportion of the American population wiped out.

rabid gun-toting rednecks — Benkei

That'd be a large proportion of the American population — Wayfarer

True, but the rabid gun-toting redneck Obama & Clinton haters and Trump voters are generally unemployable, unskilled, jobless working class males without a future, anyway, so they might as well get on with their dying, rather than cluttering up the jailhouses, shooting galleries, and workhouses.

Note to "middle class" white liberals: pay attention to what happened to your deplorable brothers on the other side of the tracks. Once AI eliminates your jobs, you will replace them in their misery. You'll be the feckless, white-necked losers loathed by the elites.

Speaking of things to wish for:

The Wall Street Journal editorial board has called on Mueller to resign.

This is the most disgraceful interference with due process by the media. What makes it even more galling, is the irony of Trump’s continual railing against ‘fake news’, while the media that do support him engage in egregious falsehood and obvious subterfuge. I would love to see Rupert Murdoch arrested and charged with sedition.

I like the manner in which Mueller is conducting his investigation. Manafort was no real surprise. I mean, given the evidence I've seen in addition to the fact that he was already on their radar. The ties to Russians are very abnormal in themselves. The failure of key members to recollect any conversations and/or meetings until after they've been discovered is telling. The ball is beginning to unravel. The data has time/date stamps. The timeline of events germane to Russia will be the death knell...

Who's next, Kushner?

will be the death knell in the coffin... — creativesoul

Oops, mixing your cliches... Death knells are sounded, nails are pounded into the coffin.

Duly noted Bitter...

X-)

I'll have to refrain from that.

Actually I’ve realised why the Wall St Journal wants to get rid of Mueller - because of the risk of it delaying the corporate tax cuts, which is the sole reason that they supported Trump’s election in the first place. If those tax cuts don’t get delivered, then you’ll see serious consequences.

Death knells are sounded, nails are pounded into the coffin. — Bitter Crank

A particular pet peeve of mine, are the things that are said to nowadays ‘beg the question’. As all of us literati know, ‘begging the question’ is an informal fallacy whereby an argument assumes what it sets out to prove. But nowadays, all kinds of people are using the expression the wrong way, which begs the question of whether it will continue to be of any use in argument. ;-)

Probs Flynn.

Probs Flynn. — Michael

Mueller Has Enough Evidence to Bring Charges in Flynn Investigation

Looks like I'm right.

Oh, I know it's sick, but I love it when the shit hits the fan. It makes such a beautiful pattern.

Oh, I know it's sick, but I love it when the shit hits the fan. It makes such a beautiful pattern. — Metaphysician Undercover

For your aesthetic delight...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/05/trump-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-business-links-putin-family-paradise-papers?CMP=fb_gu

Just for my understanding, what's the consequence in the US if a secretary of state or president lies to the house or senate? In the Netherlands that's a political death sentence and you'd be out before the end of the week but then we have 13 parties in parliament, so it's easier.

I think it's on record various people lied repeatedly about meeting Russians. Regardless of what they spoke about, the lies themselves are a problem if the checks and balances are to work.

what's the consequence in the US if a secretary of state or president lies to the house or senate? — Benkei

Trump lies continuously , but he’s very effective at using lies to distract from lies.

What's the role of congress and the senate in the US? In the Netherlands the chambers of parliament have two jobs: writing laws and checking the government. If ar epresentative of the government lies to parliament the second job becomes impossible. This is why lying to parliament in the Netherlands is a political death sentence.

Now, I can imagine Trump hasn't lied to congress on a specific question but then it seems to me he should be invited to either congress or senate and be asked direct questions about a couple of facts we know he's been lying about and get this charade over with. Or is partisanship so ingrained that the functioning of the political institutions is relegated to an irrelevancy (which would be a sad state of affairs from my point of view)?

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/936628560374071296

JUST IN: @BrianRoss on @ABC News Special Report: Michael Flynn promised "full cooperation to the Mueller team" and is prepared to testify that as a candidate, Donald Trump "directed him to make contact with the Russians." http://abcn.ws/2AhU3Iq

Edit: ABC article updated to read that Flynn "is prepared to testify that Donald Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians, initially as a way to work together to fight ISIS in Syria."

A different (corrected?) report from AP:

As part of a plea deal, former national security adviser Michael Flynn has admitted that a senior member of the Trump transition team directed him to make contact with Russian officials in December 2016.

Referring to this, which is regarding him persuading Russia not to respond to Obama's sanctions.

Edit: ABC article updated to read that Flynn "is prepared to testify that Donald Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians, initially as a way to work together to fight ISIS in Syria." — Michael

I remember in the start of this year Flynn's lawyer already wrote a letter that "General Flynn would a have a real story to tell".

Seems the Flynn and his lawyers and Mueller's team have finally managed to do a deal.

One of the stories doing the rounds is that Trump is confident that the whole Mueller investigation will be completed before Christmas and will totally exonerate him. I think part of this is due to the fact that Trump’s capacity for self-deception (driven by narcisism) is practically infinite, and also because he has no real comprehension of what the investigation is about. So, if the investigation takes a bad turn (from his viewpoint) and starts to look as though it might really cause him trouble, then it will get very interesting. One possibility is at that moment, Trump will act to fire Mueller. He has already done a lot of outrageous things and gotten away with it, this would just be one more. But will it be the final straw? As it’s December, my guess is we won’t have to wait long to find out.

Everyone's diagnosis of Trump is that he is a narcissist -- a diagnosis with which I concur. He's pretty much a narcissistic liar/thief/knave/scoundrel rolled up in one, However, even narcissistic LTKSs may have good reasons to misrepresent the situation. By always maintaining that "it's going to be great" (whatever that might be), or "We're going to do an outstanding job of" (whatever that might be), or "I have no fears of the investigation" (of whatever investigation might be going on) an air of confidence and 'full steam ahead', all is well... is maintained. People like that better than "the end is near", even if it evidently is near. The effects are short term, of course, because some issue is always ready to raise its ugly head. Other administrations have done the same thing. Johnson, Nixon, Clinton, Bush, et al.

My guess is that in closed door, off the record meetings, the President and his lawyers/advisors are probably frank and honest about the progress of the war, the defense against the investigators, the pursuit of the terrorists, or what have you. But, if the war is not going well, or if the investigators appear to be ready to screw one to the wall, and maybe will impanel a grand jury which will hand down indictments, what else can the Prez do by put up a positive front?

After all, it might work out OK. It didn't for Johnson (huge demonstrations, civil disobedience), it didn't for Nixon (he was screwed to the wall, indicted, convicted, impeached, disgraced...) but it did work out OK for Clinton (he was investigated, impeached, disgraced -- and somehow managed to successfully finish a second term without too much difficulty. George Bush II screwed up royally, wrecked Iraq, fucked over the American economy, was feckless in ever so many ways, but still wasn't disgraced. Obama's every error (nothing too minor to criticize) was brought to light, but he managed to complete two terms without being tarred and feathered (they tried).

There is some evidence that Trump has a thin, but Teflon coated skin to which shit doesn't stick. Kennedy, Clinton, and Bush II all seemed to have that special slipperiness. People loved accusing Nixon. The good men Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama just couldn't avoid stuff sticking to them. If there was a bad smell 10 miles away, it would stick to those two. They fortunately had no personal scandals (hardly so much as a really bad faux pas) or they would both have been run out of town on a rail.

It’s more that Trump simply crashes through the guardrails of proprietary, of what is decent behaviour, with utter contempt for such niceties, and then challenges anyone to try and stop him. The ‘Trump supporters’ will never try and stop him, because they think whatever he does is great - as he said during his campaign, he could shoot someone dead on Fifth Avenue and they’d applaud. And the Republicans are too craven and to consumed by fear and self-interest to try and stop him. The ‘fourth estate’ is trying to show him up, but even on this Forum there are Trump puppets (Trumpets?) who will likewise cheer him on. I just hope he gets his karm-uppance, and that I’m around to see it.

I don’t know how the Mueller thing will pan out, but everyone reading should know about this book.

I don’t know how the Mueller thing will pan out, but everyone reading should know about this book. — Wayfarer

:-} What a waste of time. I think people like you need to read a book titled "How to stop fapping daydreaming about another man's ruin"

Trump puppets — Wayfarer

There aren't any Trump puppets here, there are reasonable people, and unreasonable ones like you, who have developed an irrational fear of Trump and, from time to time, go around digging some dirt and gloating about how wonderful it will be when Trump gets ruined (which of course hasn't happened so far, beating absolutely ALL of your idiotic predictions). How pathetic.

I think part of this is due to the fact that Trump’s capacity for self-deception (driven by narcisism) is practically infinite, and also because he has no real comprehension of what the investigation is about. — Wayfarer

He does seem delusional. Apparently he still believes that Obama's birth certificate is fake, and that it wasn't him on the Access Hollywood tape. And these are things he's saying in private, so it can't be put down to him lying to his supporters.

What a waste of time. — Agustino

cue the trumpet.

it can't be put down to him lying to his supporters. — Michael

I have no doubt he believes his own lies.

It seems quite obvious Mueller is going to get more out of Flynn than if he had sued him for more serious offences. Nevertheless, I think there's a real possibility that nothing will come of this with respect to Trump even if he directed Flynn and others to contact the Russians.

The question is for what reason and can that reason be proved. If the reason is relatively benign such as contacting the ambassador to ask him not to react too strongly to sanctions then there's nothing there warranting impeachment in the eyes of the GOP. I mean, that Trump is a liar has already been established several times over but this doesn't matter to his base nor the GOP. So if the reason what he lied about is something resembling treason, there might still be a problem of proof, making it plausibly deniable. The GOP only stands to lose if something sticks to "one of theirs" so they're not going to impeach without something resembling proof and only if it's egregious.

Perhaps more important then is whether power in the house and senate will swing back to Democrats, who might believe lying is sufficient regardless of what was lied about.