But sexual advances, wanted and unwanted, are an ordinary part of life and not in themselves bad, regrettable or traumatic. — jamalrob
A feature of the #me2 movement is that they are unwilling to distinguish between a pat on a woman's derriere and rape. — Bitter Crank
A feature of the #me2 movement is that they are unwilling to distinguish between a pat on a woman's derriere and rape. The former can not be worse than annoying, and has nothing in common with the latter. — Bitter Crank
Here's the deal - society is hypocritical. If grabbing isn't okay, then it should never be okay, not in some circumstances okay, and in others not okay. There are situations in society when such behaviours are even expected - and that's a problem when you're trying to say that society shouldn't consider it acceptable because you must also eliminate those situations. I mean, if you go in a nightclub in a developed country like the UK, I can guarantee you, 100%, that there will be a lot of unsolicited grabbing going around. What do you do about that? Because people even expect it to happen in such places.It's not the slap that's the problem but the society that considers this acceptable. It shouldn't be. So it's all commentary on those social norms and the acts being an expression of that aren't really the issue here. — Benkei
I doubt these me2-people are unable to tell the difference between rape and unwanted sexual advances. — Benkei
A feature of the #me2 movement is that they are unwilling to distinguish between a pat on a woman's derriere and rape. The former can not be worse than annoying, — Bitter Crank
Here's the deal - society is hypocritical. If grabbing isn't okay, then it should never be okay, not in some circumstances okay, and in others not okay. There are situations in society when such behaviours are even expected - and that's a problem when you're trying to say that society shouldn't consider it acceptable because you must also eliminate those situations. I mean, if you go in a nightclub in a developed country like the UK, I can guarantee you, 100%, that there will be a lot of unsolicited grabbing going around. What do you do about that? — Agustino
The solution is really quite simple. You should pay attention to the person you're interested in and read their actions and hear their words. I've misread flirtation in the past but that became clear before I even touched her. It really isn't that hard and I'm not even good at reading people or moods. That fact makes the problem even more egregious as it takes very little effort to avoid this shit. — Benkei
It really boils down to respecting people instead of seeing them as objects to conquer or use. — Benkei
Everyone is different, and even if you're good at reading signals, still sometimes it is hard to know if your advance will be welcome or not. Sometimes you do have to take risks. — jamalrob
The problem with these sentiments, which I've seen all over the place recently, is that they don't take account of the richness of life. Thus they amount to an acceptance of new social restrictions surrounding sex, an impoverishment of sexual interaction and a degradation of individual autonomy, decades after the freedoms gained in the sexual liberation of the sixties.
Everyone is different, and even if you're good at reading signals, still sometimes it is hard to know if your advance will be welcome or not. Sometimes you do have to take risks.
But sometimes people want to be treated like that. Sometimes people want to be conquered and used. People play games. It's part of the fun, and inevitably it will often misfire. But it's ok to make a mistake; it becomes harassment only if you keep on doing it, and that's where respect comes in.[ — jamalrob
Well, that's not true for all women. I mean, you'd be hardpressed to show that there are no women out there who like to be objectified for example. I've met some, and they will outright tell you that they have no problem with that, and they even desire it.It is indeed and should be a social restriction on how a lot men behave towards women because women don't want to be treated that way. — Benkei
Well, that's not true for all women. I mean, you'd be hardpressed to show that there are no women out there who like to be objectified for example. I've met some, and they will outright tell you that they have no problem with that, and they even desire it. — Agustino
Now, obviously I disagree with such treatments of women for religious & moral reasons, but it doesn't mean that they're not present in society.
Good luck trying to convince your average guy in the Western world not to pat a woman's bottom in what they take to be the "right" social settings.
Just so we get a good idea because I might not be "manly" enough — Benkei
It is indeed and should be a social restriction on how a lot men behave towards women because women don't want to be treated that way. They can't be much clearer about that than they have been recently. — Benkei
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