One of the leading theories is that consciousness is simply the brain's model of all the competing stimuli-respone actions going on that it uses to keep track of everything.
The advantage of being able to 'watch over' these responses is (rather ironically) that illusory stimuli can be more easily identified as such because they do not concur with other stimuli. The only way the brain can do this (so goes the theory) is to 'expect' all received stimuli to concur. That feeling is what we describe as consciousness. — Pseudonym
The importance of this question comes to my mind after the discussion in this comment. — bahman
i think what is most interesting about this is, who is making decisions? if every decision that is made is just a product of sub conscious that's very odd because everything that you have done up until this point has been chosen by something that you're not even aware of. — David Solman
the sub conscious is what acts first but it acts without your contribution and so what does this mean for us? are we even able to make a choice? does the brain create the illusion that we're making the decisions when in fact we play no part at all? and more importantly, who is pulling the strings? if all this true then what about the bigger picture, the population of the entire world experiences the same as i do and all of those decisions made by everyone to bring us to this point in human evolution has just been a product of zero conscious thought? — David Solman
is everyone is just riding a train to experience what our inner conscious feels is the right and wrong way to act? — David Solman
It does seem utterly wasteful and counter-evolutionary to claim that consciousness and free-will are illusions. For this to work in evolutionary terms, then consciousness and the awareness of free-will must have a physical effect, which means that the illusions must be causal. — tom
So, we have certain illusions, that must be caused by something physical, that must cause something physical, that must render the illuded fitter for survival. Very odd indeed! — tom
Perhaps illusion is the wrong descriptor? — tom
Yes, I agree. But you then have the tension between body and consciousness which this leads to improbable situation. This was subject of another thread. Please see the link in OP for further discussion. — bahman
I cannot resolve the problem which stated in this thread and the other thread if I accept that the mind is byproduct of brain activity. — bahman
Yes, I agree. But you then have the tension between body and consciousness which this leads to improbable situation. This was subject of another thread. Please see the link in OP for further discussion.
— bahman
Why, when there is such a straight forward resolution? — tom
I cannot resolve the problem which stated in this thread and the other thread if I accept that the mind is byproduct of brain activity.
— bahman
The mind is a byproduct of brain activity in the same way playing Go is a byproduct of computer activity. — tom
I don't understand your comment. Do you mind to rephrase? — bahman
So you believe that the feeling of free will is an illusion but it exists just because there is a stimuli for it? — bahman
According to known physics, the brain is a universal computing device. All such devices are equivalent. So, the program running on your brain (or any other universal computer) is the entity that creates consciousness as a feature. Consciousness, and free-will are software features, not hardware features.
Playing chess, is no more a feature of the computer hardware than consciousness is a feature of the brain. — tom
I find it very strange to say that you aren't making decisions, when YOUR subconscious is making decisions.i think what is most interesting about this is, who is making decisions? if every decision that is made is just a product of sub conscious that's very odd because everything that you have done up until this point has been chosen by something that you're not even aware of. the sub conscious is what acts first but it acts without your contribution and so what does this mean for us? are we even able to make a choice? — David Solman
No, that's not quite what I'm saying. The theory is that conciousness is the effect of the brain monitoring the stimuli it has received from all the different sources and expecting them to be coherent. That expectation is the sensation that we are one entity, aware of all our actions and responses. The evidence pretty clearly shows that we are not. Scientists can tell you 'you' are going to move your arm before you actually decide to move your arm, it's pretty irrefutable, it doesn't matter how hard it is for anyone to understand or get how such a thing might have evolved. 'You' are not in charge. — Pseudonym
Look at how animals behave. They're driven by what could be called emotions or, perhaps better, base desires. They're behavior consists of feeding and mating. Everything animals do can be reduced to the two activities I've mentioned. One might say that animals exercise choice in the type of food or mate but these two are modulated through the senses which are nothing more than chemical receptors. We don't attribute free will to an ameba whose activities are entirely controlled through chemicals do we? So, animals, clearly, lack freedom of will. Their choices are determined through signals that have never enter the light of consciousness.
Humans are animals too. If so then how can it be that we should be so different, invested as it were, with free will? We do engage in mating and feeding and in that we're the same as animals - driven by visual cues, taste, smell, etc.
Point to note is mating and feeding are pro-life i.e. preserves, nurtures, and propagates life. We engage in mating and feeding to prolong life or to bring new life into the world. So far so good.
However, humans have a distinct ability, not found in animals - we can do things that are detrimental to life. We can harm ourselves or choose a course in our lives that is painful and dangerous. This type of behavior is absent in animals. Does this mean we truly have free will? After all we can do something that is not driven by our base instincts. Surely this must mean something! — TheMadFool
So you entirely believe that conscious activities have no role in our lives? — bahman
So what is the point of consciousness? — bahman
As I said above, the point is to highlight potential discrepancies in stimuli. If we're expecting all our stimuli to be coherent then we are more able to spot when one might be in error. It allows us to shortcut thought processes that might otherwise consume too much energy "what shall 'I' do next?" is quicker than "let's just consult all the various influences that might have a view on what this body should do next". Being able to predict other people's behaviour is also useful and much quicker if we think of people as individuals. There's loads of potential advantages, but they're all just using the conscious self as a shorthand sketch of what's really going on, it's not accurate. — Pseudonym
Cells — Pseudonym
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