This is the first time in my life feeling ashamed for being an American. What Trump said today was something only authoritarian dictators do. Shit like this does not fly in any type of democracy.

This is the first time in my life feeling ashamed for being an American. What Trump said today was something only authoritarian dictators do. Shit like this does not fly in any type of democracy. — Posty McPostface

What was it this time?

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/immigrants-shithole-countries-trump/index.html

I'm obviously getting desensitivised as I shrugged and thought "Trump being Trump".

Some countries are shitholes. And saying so isn't racist. Trump may be a racist, but his recent comment wasn't.

Is it becoming of a president to say such a thing? Certainly not. But it's not surprising coming from Trump, so there's no reason to be shocked.

Is it becoming of a president to say such a thing? Certainly not. But it's not surprising coming from Trump, so there's no reason to be shocked. — Thorongil

So Trump isn't qualified for the position, what else is new?

I didn't say that.

I didn't say that. — Thorongil

It was implied.

I didn't wish to imply it.

I didn't wish to imply it. — Thorongil

The truth isn't always convenient to ones views.

That's true, but my views on this matter aren't untrue.

That's true, but my views on this matter aren't untrue. — Thorongil

What are your views, then?

That Trump is qualified to be president.

I also wonder if any of these politicians, media pundits, or UN bureaucrats who are presently hyperventilating over Trump's comment have ever called a state, region, town, or city predominantly composed of Republicans, Evangelicals, or the white working class a "shithole" or something similar....

Two wrongs don't make a right.

The problem most Republicans have with Trump's comments is that he made them, not that they disagree with them. It is more offensive to pretend that all nations are equal than it is to proclaim America is exceptional.

Agreed. I'm only suggesting hypocrisy. Trump's original comment wasn't wrong, though. It was merely tactless for someone in his position.

Precisely.

Haha, but if authoritarians think it's true then so it must be.

Ive been following the comments most Republicans are making on CNN news feeds and elsewhere and they do not seem to have a problem with the comment. In fact they endorse it.

Yeah show me some evidence of this hypocrisy your talking about.

Yeah show me some evidence of this hypocrisy your talking about. — Posty McPostface

I'm not exactly sure what Thorongil has in mind here, but I'm pretty sure you'd agree that there's quite a double standard among many Leftists and Progressives when it comes to the issue of making sweeping generalizations about entire groups.

To use the most obvious example, making unqualified generalizations about Trump supporters as a bunch of ignorant, racist, redneck, hillbilly, sexist and xenophobic idiots or "deplorables" is perfectly acceptable.

Even cautioning against such blanket generalizations, or trying to make a distinction between Trump's lunacy and the idea that he may have tapped into some legitimate grievances among a segment of the voting public despite his profound flaws, often brings accusations of racism against the one doing the cautioning and/or distinguishing.

On the other hand, generalizing about immigrants, Muslims, etc. is clearly not acceptable according to those same people who have no qualms about caricaturing Trump's supporters.

Of course the opposite holds true in the case of many Trump supporters who openly generalize those groups he's attacked in negative terms while also protesting when unflattering portrayals are directed their way.

Just trying to make a non-partisan observation here about the pervasive hypocrisy in our society.

What do you reckon the chances of Trump winning another mandate are? I'd say around 90%.

It's probably too early to tell. I guess much will depend on how things develop over the next couple years with the economy and also who he runs against.

But I'm honestly not deeply engaged in the day to day political situation and will therefore defer to the expertise of others on that topic.

What's your opinion?

What's your opinion? — Erik

I agree with you that it depends on what happens. The worst thing is if Congress impeaches Trump, though I doubt it, since Trump has no shame about using the means of power he has at his disposal to save himself.

However, I think in all likelihood, Trump will not be impeached, and I'm not sure if anyone can defeat him in the elections if the economy keeps going great (and I have no doubt it will, given the tax cuts, and reduced bureaucracy) - Americans are crazy about the economy. Furthermore, remember what Trump did with accusing Hillary of cheating, rigging the elections, etc. while he was NOT President. Imagine what he will do when he has the entire state apparatus at his fingertips.

I typically hold politicians to a higher standard than the masses.

Hah! Let's see what Mueller has to say about that.

That sounds about right.

As someone who doesn't share many of Trump's positions, I do think he's often unnecessarily offensive towards groups that may otherwise find his positions congenial to their own. That goes for conservatives more generally.

I'll make a generalization of my own for the sake of clarifying what I mean. In my experience, there's some truth to the stereotype that Mexicans are in many ways hardworking, family-oriented and somewhat culturally conservative. IMO those are guiding values that he'd be better served by highlighting and connecting to his own political and economic narrative, rather than continue doing what he's done so far, which is to make disparaging and emotionally-alienating remarks about them.

But I'd imagine there are cynical calculations that politicians of all persuasions make that I'm largely oblivious to and which would go a long ways in explaining their strategies. For example, would Trump alienate some of his own largely anti-immigrant base by praising some of the those traits I just outlined and then identifying them specifically with Mexicans? Would he gain enough Mexican-American votes to offset the potential loss of the more traditional base he currently panders to?

Along similar lines, I've often wondered why most Democrats (other than Bernie Sanders) didn't reach out to white working class voters with an economic message transcending racial (and other) identities. They were often quite explicit when outlining the groups they do represent these days: blacks, Latinos, immigrants, women, young people, etc. What's conspicuously absent in their lists, obviously, are older, less-affluent white males. But had they made that more universal appeal then they may very well have alienated some of the important marginalized groups they do mention.

It's like Carl Schmitt's identification (according to my limited understanding of his work) of the essence of the sovereign being to distinguish friend from enemy. It's unfortunate but it does seem as though you need to cultivate resentments against an enemy in order to rally friends to your side.

I typically hold politicians to a higher standard than the masses. — Posty McPostface

Well I take a more cynical view. Politicians more often pander to and flatter the masses in order to gain support rather than challenge their prejudices.

Sure, they may cultivate a more respectable demeanor in public, but behind the scenes they reserve for themselves the right to engage in things that belie that carefully crafted image.

Basic Machiavellian stuff.

Maybe, but not in a democracy, common...

It's like Carl Schmitt's identification (according to my limited understanding of his work) of the essence of the sovereign being to distinguish friend from enemy. It's unfortunate but it does seem as though you need to cultivate resentments against an enemy in order to rally friends to your side. — Erik

I think this is true. And it's largely true because you necessarily have to define yourself by what you oppose. Divide et impera has been the slogan of those in power ever since the Roman times. I think the problem is precisely that you cannot befriend everyone since people have conflicting interests.