this doesn't really address the issue, which is a claim like "we don't want people from these countries coming here". — Michael
What country is it that makes no distinctions about the number of immigrants from which countries may enter? It is the case that everyone who may wish to can not be accepted. Every immigrant from country A takes up the space that an immigrant from country B would like to occupy. Choices are made. Trumps list of preferred places might not be the same as mine, but there will be preferred sources of immigration. — Bitter Crank
So, Mr. Politically Correct, how many Congoians would you want coming to the UK versus how many Dutch would you want? — Hanover
A sovereign nation can pick and choose who immigrates to it for a variety of reasons. The operative reason for denying Haitians, say, might be that they wouldn't contribute economically. — Thorongil
The Congo Crisis (French: Crise congolaise) was a period of political upheaval and conflict in the Republic of the Congo (today the Democratic Republic of the Congo)[c] between 1960 and 1965. It began almost immediately after the Congo became independent from Belgium and ended, unofficially, with the entire country under the rule of Joseph-Désiré Mobutu. Constituting a series of civil wars, the Congo Crisis was also a proxy conflict in the Cold War, in which the Soviet Union and United States supported opposing factions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Crisis
Haitian poverty is a deep-seeded problem that started many years ago. During the 1700's Haiti was under French rule and was the wealthiest country in the New World and represented a quarter of France's economy. In 1801 a Haitian slave revolt defeated the French army and the newly independent colony became the first country in the New World to abolish slavery. France agreed to recognize Haitian independence if Haiti paid a large indemnity. This kept Haiti in a constant state of debt and put France in a position of power over Haiti's trade and finances.
The 20th century brought three decades of American occupation, multiple corrupt regimes, natural disasters, environmental devastation and HIV to Haiti. The United States gained complete control over Haitian finances, and the right to intervene in Haiti whenever the U.S. Government deemed necessary. The U.S. Government also forced the election of a new pro-American President, Philippe Sudré Dartiguenave, by the Haitian legislature in August of 1915. The selection of a President that did not represent the choice of the Haitian populace increased unrest in Haiti. In 1929, a series of strikes and uprisings led the United States to begin withdrawal from Haiti. By the time U.S occupation ceased in 1934, Haiti was left with a decimated economy and facing a future full of poverty and desperation.
http://poverty-haiti.weebly.com/causes-of-poverty-in-haiti.html
You do have those Dan Quayle moments: "I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn’t study Latin harder in school so I could converse with them." I'll let it pass as a moment of inarticustupilackafecacleansia. — TimeLine
It is no secret why there are so many failed states around the world. To shove blame on the victims is indeed just shameful racism. — apokrisis
To put it in comparison, after Katrina New Orleans was a shithole, and to call it a shithole would probably be an accurate thing to say. But it would be awful of the Mayor of some nearby, but not affected, city to say "we don't want people from that shithole coming here." — Michael
A country is a great or terrible place regardless of why. — Hanover
The links you provide prove the opposite of your argument. — Buxtebuddha
You seem to be one of those people who imagines precolonial life in countries like Haiti to be paradises without problems. — Buxtebuddha
Before the arrival of Europeans, Arawak (also known as Taino) and Carib Indians inhabited the island of Hispaniola. Although researchers debate the total pre-Columbian population (estimates range from 60,000 to 600,000), the detrimental impact of colonization is well documented. Disease and brutal labor practices nearly annihilated the Indian population within 50 years of Columbus’s arrival.
www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/History/Haiti-history.htm
Nope. You're diverting the conversation with irrelevant sanctimony. — Hanover
Deporting all Salvadoran, Honduran, and Haitian TPS holders would cost taxpayers $3.1 billion dollars.
▪ Ending TPS for these three countries would result in a $6.9 billion reduction to Social Security and Medicare contributions over a decade.
▪ Ending TPS for these three countries would lead to a $45.2 billion reduction in GDP over a decade.
▪ The wholesale lay-off of the entire employed TPS population from these three countries would result in $967 million of turnover costs, e.g. costs employers incur when an employee leaves a position
Among Haitian immigrants ages 16 and older, 71 percent participated in the civilian labor force, compared to 66 percent of the overall foreign-born population and 62 percent of the U.S.-born population. Haitian immigrant women were also more likely to be in the labor force than the overall female immigrant population (66 percent compared to 55 percent).
These are racist views to the extent to which they deny colonial history. — apokrisis
Calling a country a shit-hole is implying its own people have shat in it. — apokrisis
New Orleans was a shithole before Katrina though, and that's why Houston didn't want New Orleanese coming there. — Hanover
Early reporting during Hurricane Katrina heavily used racist tropes and stereotypical narratives that often vilified the victims of the hurricane, whose impact disproportionately affected the low-income, but vibrant Black communities of New Orleans.
During the crisis, commentators from CNN to Fox News lampooned Black and poor New Orleanians for being unable to leave the city quick enough, while others devoted special news segments highlighting the “criminal element,” which condemned the “looting” by Black residents, many of whom had just lost their homes, their possessions, and who were facing dehydration and starvation.
These early reports helped shape the narrative that some were undeserving of national assistance and help, while heavily drawing on historical fears and tropes of a scary, lazy, poor Black underclass that is deserving of oppression and neglect.
https://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/Deserving-and-Undeserving-Victims-Reporting-Hurricane-Katrina--20150827-0041.html
I don't deny colonialism — Thorongil
If a country wants to refuse you entry, they can, and it's tough luck for you. — Thorongil
We are talking about failed states and their reasons. — apokrisis
Moreover, if Norwegians, say, would be a greater economic boon the U.S. than Haitians, then if economics is the relevant determining factor in deciding who gets to immigrate, the former will be allowed in and the latter not. — Thorongil
You built an entire argument upon the false premise that referring to a country as a shithole implied the citizens were the cause of their status, then you jumped on your high horse and lectured us about how the citizens were victims as if we didn't know that, and then in exasperation you declared those disagreeing with you racists that you had no time for.A man with a guilty conscience, hey? Well, some hope for you perhaps. — apokrisis
It sounds like you're saying we should accept them just 'cause. — Thorongil
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