There is no God who can do the logically impossible, as such a thing is incoherent. There is just (possibly) a God who can do the logically possible. — Michael
No, I'm saying that if doing the logically impossible is incoherent then it isn't wrong to suggest that a God that can do everything that is logically possible is "all-powerful". — Michael
I don't think such a world exist. — bahman
In other words, you think that the laws of physics that you have been taught apply to all possible places in all possible times.
How do you know? — WISDOMfromPO-MO
So things you can't imagine can't be possible for God? God is bound by your imagination? — JustSomeGuy
God is bound by your imagination? — JustSomeGuy
"One apple+one apple=two apples". I cannot even imagine "one apple+one apple=three apples". — bahman
We tend to be quite selective in choosing our examples. 1+1=1 when we watch raindrops slide down a window. 1+1=3 when folk fuck without contraception. — Banno
What you are doing is merely redefining the concept of "1" so your theory applies. — bahman
That is, the question in the title badly misunderstands what logic is. — Banno
Exactly.
And that is exactly what we have done; defined "1" so that the theory of numbers applies.
If god 'defied' logic, we could simply change the rules of logic so that they applied to his actions.
That is, the question in the title badly misunderstands what logic is. — Banno
So God can make square triangles? — Sam26
...you're talking about things that are not possible in our universe. These things are not possible because of the way our universe operates. We cannot say anything about what any other possible universe/reality could look like, because we only have experience of our own. We are limited by our universe. God is not.
If you believe God is limited by our universe, then he cannot be omnipotent, and he cannot be the creator of it. That's fine, you can believe in that sort of God, but when people speak about God they're usually speaking about an omnipotent creator God. — JustSomeGuy
You're saying that God is limited by what you can imagine. Why on Earth would that be the case? It's quite egotistical, isn't it? I'm not calling any of you egotistical, just so we're clear; I don't believe any of you are making the argument with the intent of it being egotistical. But that doesn't change the fact that it is an egotistical claim.
This may be a cliche kind of metaphor, but consider something "lower" than us. Lower than biological life forms. A rock, for example. Do you think a rock understands logic? Can a rock imagine mathematics? If course not. It's a rock. We are not rocks, which is why we can do those things that rocks cannot conceive of (including conceiving of things).
Now, when we talk about God we're talking about a totally different "kind" of thing than we are. Similar to rocks vs. humans, but to an even greater degree. Why in the world would this thing (God) be constrained by our limitations? — JustSomeGuy
The fact that this is not possible in the universe we live in says absolutely nothing about what God is capable of, because God is not bound by our universe if he is omnipotent and created it. — JustSomeGuy
a square triangle cannot exist on a plane; and that's jut a result of what a square and a triangle are. Further this is so in any possible universe — Banno
To put it another way, logic does not constrain the world in any way, nor does it constrain God. It constrains what can be sensibly said. — unenlightened
The language we are using describes concepts in this universe; we cannot apply any of them to any other possible universe or anything outside of our universe. — JustSomeGuy
a world containing square triangles would not be talking about the same squares and triangles that exist in our world. The meanings of these words would have changed, as the meaning of triangle is changed when a triangle is scribed on a sphere. — Banno
Logic does not constrain the world in any way. But sometimes the logic one chooses is the wrong one for what one has to say, and hence needs changing. — Banno
I was wondering whether there is an argument in favor or against this statement: "God can defy logic".
This issue raised up in another thread. I was questioning whether 1+1=3 is possible.
If god is perfect he can have no flaw and not being logical is a flaw — Cavacava
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