Materialism is a system of belief which emphasizes that physical process can explain all phenomena in the world. Consciousness therefore is an epiphenomenon within materialism since it is not a physical process but outcome of a physical process. We however know that consciousness is necessary for learning (please read the following article). This means that consciousness is causally efficacious. Therefore materialism is not correct. — bahman
If consciousness is causally efficacious then epiphenomenalism isn't correct. Materialism doesn't depend on epiphenomenalism. In fact, materialism probably excludes epiphenomenalism. — Michael
Materialism doesn't lead to epiphenomalism. — Michael
The only way around this problem for materialists is by declaring consciousness some sort of illusion — Rich
Why? Can't they say that consciousness is real, just physical in nature? — Michael
Most people think of physical as something that can be causal in some manner. I would be delighted if biologists (specifically) admitted that consciousness causes things - such as evolution. That would be wonderful. — Rich
A "state" in this case can be understood as the way the world is, — MindForged
material mind. — celebritydiscodave
A state isn't an object, it cannot be physical. If one equates brain states with consciousness, one is not saying a "state" is a physical thing nor does it entail your favorite quantum woo. — MindForged
We however know that consciousness is necessary for learning (please read the following article). This means that consciousness is causally efficacious. Therefore materialism is not correct. — bahman
There's a bunch of physical matter in a particular state, i.e. arranged in a particular way and behaving a certain way. That's perfectly consistent with materialism. — Michael
Personally I'm not a 'materialist'. But the article you quote can be easily accommodated within a materialist/physicalist account. Either 'conscious awareness' is itself physiologically based, or it supervenes on the physical here. — mcdoodle
Gosh, this is like a slippery eel.
WHAT IS MIND?
Please take a deep breath and instead of taking all sides to all things, figure out what you are trying to say and then say it. — Rich
I know what I'm trying to say. The materialist may argue that consciousness is identical to a particular arrangement and behaviour of matter (e.g. the brain and its activity). You seem to have some issue with the term "state" and are saying something about states not being physical. This doesn't make any sense to me, and I'm asking you to clarify it. — Michael
What I am arguing is that consciousness has a causal effect on state of affair therefore materialism, given the definition in OP, is not correct. — bahman
Under materialism, consciousness cannot have any causal effect on the state of affair since the state of affair is defined in term of physical process.
We have a bit of a problem if trying to explain the theory of how consciousness materializes out of a "state" that is continuously changing persistent". Magic? It just happens? The "Thermodynamic Imperative". Or is it just dogma? — Rich
The materialist will say that consciousness is those brain waves. — Michael
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.