Now add 2 and 2 together and see that someone who kills another in self-defence doesn't approve of murder in-itself. — Agustino
That's exactly what I've been saying. — Agustino
Yes, because abortion in-itself is wrong. There are circumstances when it may be acceptable - I listed a few.But you seemed to question René Descartes believing in God if he believed in a woman's right to choose — Michael
I agree with you and LT for the most part, except that I would say that abortion should be legal if the mother's life is in danger - she should have that choice. Otherwise, in most other cases (excluding rape, etc.) it should be illegal. — Agustino
Yes, because abortion in-itself is wrong. — Agustino
The Jews had their own law.1) Judea was a ROMAN province and hence was under the lex Romana.
2) Jesus said NOTHING against either abortion or infanticide.
3) Run along now please! — charleton
No. Life is sacred. That is exactly why killing someone in self-defence has a different status (since they may have killed you otherwise). So murder is ALWAYS wrong in-itself. In circumstances like self-defence, it's not that killing someone isn't wrong, but it's excusable since you didn't have a choice. — Agustino
There is a difference (you and Buxte will readily agree) between being a squishy little 6 week old fetus and a 6 year old child learning arithmetic when some well armed angry male decides to wipe out a batch of people. It's gunning down people who made it all the way to personhood, a name, preferences, friends, lovers, etc. that outrages people. — Bitter Crank
WTF! Who put you in charge of what things are proscribed by natural law? — Pseudonym
Can I make a poll for this abortion debate, just so we have the statistics of the people in the forum? — René Descartes
The unborn is also less developed than a born human being. How does this fact, though, disqualify the unborn from personhood? A four year-old girl can’t bear children because her reproductive system is less developed than a fourteen year-old girl. That doesn’t disqualify her from personhood. She is still as equally valuable as a child-bearing teen. The unborn is also less developed than the four year-old. Therefore, we can’t disqualify her from personhood for the same reason we can’t disqualify the four year-old. Both are merely less developed than older human beings.
You do not mean size exactly? -You mean that born human persons are developmentally the superiors of the pre-born and therefore have the right to kill the pre-born? Take care again. By this rule you are to be victim to the first person you meet who is more developed in his mind and body than your own. — LostThomist
You are talking nonsense. Jesus and all his followers were under the Lex Romana. Jesus' silence speaks volumes. — charleton
If we are to understand the word "murder" as meaning "wrongfully kill" then he is claiming that there is a moral duty not to wrongfully kill it once alive, which is trivially true, but also question-begging in context, as the argument is over whether or not abortion is wrongful killing, and so doesn't satisfactorily answer the accusation it was responding to ("you have not demonstrated objectively that once a thing has been identified as a human being it is automatically a moral duty to keep it alive").
This is why words matter. I'm not playing here, but clearing up the ambiguity caused by loaded language. — Michael
You're right. He wasn't answering your question, but you were being unnecessarily formalistic. I think his point is that abortion is wrongful killing, not illegal killing. I think that is clear from what he has written. He is not begging the question, he is making an argument. — T Clark
"murder" = killing another living creature, but especially a human being.
— Agustino — René Descartes
If killing animals is murder, than humanity has murdered far more animals than human beings. — René Descartes
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