Specific case, not universal.an obese pregnant woman puts their baby at various kinds of risk. — Thorongil
Hmmm no. That's already taken into account - either the person pays out of their own wallet, or their insurance company pays for them - rest assured that if they are obese the insurance company will take this into account in their risk profile, and hence the amount of money they pay for insurance.It drives up the cost of health care — Thorongil
Because it's absurd. For one, it cannot be enforced (too expensive). And the costs to third-parties are basically non-existent.Sure, why not? — Thorongil
Fertilization may be a necessary condition for personhood, but it is not a sufficient condition. It's is potential, but not actual. An important, and necessary distinction. Your claim is essentially that a gamete, or a collection of cells, is isomorphic to a conscious, thinking, feeling, and viable being is ludicrous. Otherwise, there is little difference between a collection of cells that potentially form a human life, and a collection of cells that potentially form the life of, say, another mammal. — Maw
What's your point?
Christians are not Jews — charleton
There were no Christians when Jesus was alive. Jesus was Jewish and was preaching to Jews. — Bitter Crank
..to build a case on what Jesus didn't say.. — Bitter Crank
Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality — Bitter Crank
Well, Buxtebudd, how common do you think abortions are? It would appear that they are at a 45 year low. This from the Guttmacher Institute: — Bitter Crank
That is why the pill, IUDs, diaphragms, and condoms are called contraception. — Bitter Crank
Abortion ends the pregnancy, disrupts the tissue, ends the fetus. A fetus is live tissue, but at say 18 weeks, it isn't anywhere close to being "alive". — Bitter Crank
I suppose you are opposed to "the morning after pill"--like Plan B, which buzz-bombs the egg with birth-control hormones like levonorgestrel. levonorgestrel may prevent the ovary from releasing the egg, may prevent sperm from fertilizing the egg, or prevent the egg from digging in for the duration, some, or all of the above. The morning after pill actually works for a couple of mornings after, but not much longer than that. — Bitter Crank
24 weeks is the earliest that enough of the nervous system is present for a fetus to actually register pain. — Bitter Crank
A living thing isn't "alive"? Dafuq? I'm sure you mean to suggest that being "alive" means being conscious, but biologically speaking, that's not what constitutes being alive. — Buxtebuddha
I've not really stated my moral position on abortion, but for what it's worth, I don't consider pain the most important determining factor in the morality or immorality of an action. — Buxtebuddha
By "alive" I meant "an independently living being". At 4 or 5 months, the fetus isn't an independently living being. A 100 pound person is 100 pounds of living tissue; any single pound of their tissue, removed from the body, ceases to live because it can't live on it's own, cut off from the rest of the body. At 4 or 5 months, the fetus is in the same situation, not able to live on its own (to breathe, for instance, or swallow, excrete, etc).
I agree, consciousness isn't a requirement for "aliveness". — Bitter Crank
Some anti-abortion groups suggest that the process of abortion (before 24 weeks) would be painful for the fetus. That's why I brought up pain. — Bitter Crank
Whether pain in any situation would be a determining factor in the morality of an action would, for me, depend on the severity and duration of the pain. — Bitter Crank
I've heard the argument that abortion is actually self-defense - that the "mother" is defending herself against the intruding fetus. — Buxtebuddha
Aborting a human fetus is as repulsive to me as the examples I just mentioned — Buxtebuddha
When does it become a viable life, a person? — Bitter Crank
Yeah, but i think humans have killed more than God has. Some might say humans have even killed God, but that's another story. — René Descartes
If you believe in determinism, than what you are saying is fine. But if you believe in free will like I do, God has no control over what we do and therefore we are responsible for the evil we commit. — René Descartes
Based on the poll that just went up, it caused me to wonder if post-birth "abortions" would be considered a legitimate view point. Does the difference of a few minutes, the duration of the delivery, really change the argument made by some people here? — Sydasis
Seems like a lot of wasted tax dollars, as those first 18 years of child care services aren't cheap. Do adopted parents get to make that choice, or only the biological parents? Mom or father?I think we should be allowed to abort our child up to the age of 18 — René Descartes
I think we should be allowed to abort our child up to the age of 18 — René Descartes
The developing mammalian fetus seems to recapitulate some aspects of mammalian evolution — Bitter Crank
Fertilization may be a necessary condition for personhood, but it is not a sufficient condition. It's is potential, but not actual. — Maw
No more than an infant being potentially an adult or a 16 year old kid being a potential adult
So by that logic you are arguing for infanticide and overall genocide of anyone under 18. — LostThomist
No more than an infant being potentially an adult or a 16 year old kid being a potential adult
So by that logic you are arguing for infanticide and overall genocide of anyone under 18. — LostThomist
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