The Takings Clause is limited to "public use" as I recall, so the justification would need to be to secure the weapons perhaps for use to defend the public, not just that they didn't want folks having guns. — Hanover
The confiscation of weapons for public use would not illegalize future gun purchases either, thus making future purchases a good investment by citizens, likely bringing a massive return when predictably condemned. — Hanover
Do you interpret that to mean that if for public use, it must be compensated, but if taken arbitrarily, it's free? — Hanover
Wonderful sense of community in America where everyone is so afraid of each other that many would rather have a civil war than give up their guns. And why are they so afraid? Well, because everyone has a gun, of course. — Baden
The federal courts, however, have shown much deference to the determinations of Congress, and even more so to the determinations of the state legislatures, of what constitutes "public use". The property need not actually be used by the public; rather, it must be used or disposed of in such a manner as to benefit the public welfare or public interest.
You're arguing takings can be made for non-public use. — Hanover
And you think any court has interpreted it that way? — Hanover
As I said, the States are fucked. — Banno
Yes, the buy back was compulsory; yes, people went to gaol rather than hand back their guns There are also plenty of gun stashes out in the bush. Organised bad guys still get illegal guns and bring them in. People are allowed hunting rifles and pistols for legitimate use.
We do not give guns to teenagers and children. — Banno
We even have a Shooter's party in politics. Our equivalent of the NRA. They get 2.8% of the national vote.
We have problems with family violence that end tragically with bashings or stabbings. We have home invasions and aggravated robbery, more often with a machete than a machine gun. — Banno
We are not the United States. We are not trapped by our own rhetoric into believing that we are no more than an agglomeration of individuals, a temporarily paused anarchy. — Banno
We even have a health system that we can all use. — Banno
The Takings Clause is limited to "public use" as I recall, so the justification would need to be to secure the weapons perhaps for use to defend the public, not just that they didn't want folks having guns. — Hanover
I think it is fair to say that both of our countries have our own challenges in being a better society. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
The first thing that ought to catch your eye is his statistics: — tim wood
And, oh yes, 900 accidental gun deaths don't count as violence. — tim wood
No point in reading further. Only leaves the questions as to why, Sir2u, you bothered to bother us with this. — tim wood
And, oh yes, 900 accidental gun deaths don't count as violence.
— tim wood
Not for me, it doesn't for the FBI either apparently. — Sir2u
Fine. Do you see the problem? The accounting between gun deaths and violent deaths is getting confused, as well as confusing violent and violence. As in, gun deaths by accidental shooting don't count as gun deaths because they're not violent, taken as violence. — tim wood
Better - often necessary - to go back to the roots. What, exactly, happened? What, exactly, is the significance of what happened? What, exactly, do we want to do about it, assuming we give good answer to the first two questions? — tim wood
Any decent logic-textbook listing of forms of fallacious argumentation will seem a playbook for pro-gun advocates. Indeed for advocates of any badness or evil. Which is too bad, because many issues entangled in the fuzzy thinking or vicious arguments of advocates actually could be argued on real merits, leading to real progress, even if in the form of reasonable compromise until folks get a better understanding. — tim wood
It's not just the errors. It's the credibility of the source. The first link was from an egregiously pro-gun site. The second is from a site campaigning against abortion.If I had stopped reading every book or article after finding an error in it I doubt that I would have read half of the things I have read.
And here is another link that probably wont interest anyone either — Sir2u
I have never been confused about what is counted as a violent crime, and suicide has never been on that list, no matter how ugly it was. Because I cannot perceive the act of taking one's own life as any kind of a crime. Accidental deaths are simple accidental, it makes no difference at all how the person died. — Sir2u
But what I don't like about the discussion of the problem in the US is that everyone just wants to blame the guns. — Sir2u
Well, you are confused. If you were shot, would you call that a violence to your person? — tim wood
Do you begin to see how confused this gets? — tim wood
And if the death is accidental, it doesn't make any difference how the person died? Come on! Jimmy, four years old, gets daddy's gun and shoots Tommy, age three, to death. Cause of death doesn't matter? Are you kidding? — tim wood
Are you suggesting that guns are not part of the problem? — tim wood
Most thinking people in the US think that there are times and a places for guns, and for certain kinds of guns in those times and places. A hunting rifle in the country might be legally defensible (morally is an entirely other question). But not in a big city. On the other hand, it seems unreasonable to ban hunting rifles. Solution: registration and controls. — tim wood
You go to the trouble of being a legal gun owner; do you have any objection in principle to your gun ownership being subject to control (not asking if it's inconvenient - that's likely a given). — tim wood
It's not just the errors. It's the credibility of the source. The first link was from an egregiously pro-gun site. The second is from a site campaigning against abortion. — andrewk
There is never any point in sourcing statistics from such places. If you see something on such a site and want to know if it's true, go see if you can find corroboration on a credible, unbiased site like BBC, Australian ABC, or some government agency that is not involved in propaganda. — andrewk
To the suggestion of unfairness, the end justifies the means. — Sapientia
Jimmy, four years old, bumps into Tommy, age three, while laying at the top of the stairs and Tommy falls to his death.
Very unfortunately Tommy is dead either way. But both were accidents caused by;
1. Ignorance on the part of the participants
2. Stupidity on the part of the parents for not taking adequate safety precautions.
Does it really matter how Tommy died? — Sir2u
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