The error written in our code is that self-awareness leads to understanding of systemic futility. — schopenhauer1
Very true... It is fear that keeps us in chains. — matt
So is this good or bad? Does new mean better? Your implication is no. Why not? — schopenhauer1
A.I. presumably would do most of the work — darthbarracuda
Then you haven't been at the elephants' funeral.Well, animals seem to not have this problem of self-awareness. — schopenhauer1
I give you that. Machines do not know the concept of futility. They know utility, functionality, and redundancy.Either do machines. — schopenhauer1
Well, yes. And we wouldn't want to be in a stupor or in a coma either.Another problem would be that people would rather not be either of those, now that we've experienced our Promethean situation. — schopenhauer1
Is it a change in how products and services are distributed? Is it a change in what we value? Is it a change in relations? Is it a change in how we think? And then how would it all come together? Yep too much for my mind. As we've seen, any "attempt" at some kind of change led to violence and domination of one class or group over another. Better to just accept no? — schopenhauer1
I enjoy using new technology. But the fact is, the act of creative destruction which brought us the current crop of gadgets was a extremely huge waste of resources--duplicating what already existed. Land lines vs. cell phones? There are apps on my cell phone that I find worth the cost -- for instance, the MetroTransit app which provides me with the bus schedule for any one of thousands of bus stops I might want to catch a bus at. Or the taxi app that shows me where my taxi is, as I wait for it. On the other hand, voice quality of cell phones is usually crappy, and everyone using the world as their private phone booth is annoying, if not fatal. — Bitter Crank
I give you that. Machines do not know the concept of futility. They know utility, functionality, and redundancy. — Caldwell
The movie “I :heart: Huckabees” has a great scene where the idealistic tree-hugging crusader finally sees his “stuffed suit” opponent as himself, and it changes everything. Great metaphysical movie. — 0 thru 9
Acceptance is usually a good thing, even if one tries then to change what is accepted. Patience is wonderful and rare is our insta-google world. Don’t know how it would all come together, but eventually we all have to come together. We might be all huddled together on the mountain tops when the oceans rise and the levee breaks! — 0 thru 9
How much are we missing with our current model of the modern workday? — schopenhauer1
You mean most federal bureaucracies?Why don't you ask the Federal Bureau of Futility? — Caldwell
The work situation is an organic thing. Humans do want responsibilities. They want to be tied to an organization — Caldwell
Yes.By adding the word "organic" does that give more import to your statement? — schopenhauer1
Yes, I say that in the most sincerest of the truth.Do you think the modern relations were "organic" or rather the result of a number of factors that may or may not have lead to ideal conditions as it is now. — schopenhauer1
No. I said nothing of that sort. When I say organic, I mean it in a descriptive way, not normative.Even if it is organic, does that mean it is good? — schopenhauer1
While it appears we have now digressed from your topic, I'll indulge you. People who have hearts that don't work very well and need help from inorganic sources should go get a heart from inorganic sources. We haven't grown inorganic hearts in the lab yet. But certainly, we now have body parts that are inorganic. Like hip, knee, and heart pacer.Some people have hearts that don't work very well and need help from inorganic sources. — schopenhauer1
While it appears we have now digressed from your topic, I'll indulge you. People who have hearts that don't work very well and need help from inorganic sources should go get a heart from inorganic sources. We haven't grown inorganic hearts in the lab yet. But certainly, we now have body parts that are inorganic. Like hip, knee, and heart pacer. — Caldwell
Sorry, guilty as charged. I truly thought that was what you were asking. Explain the line again, "People who have hearts that don't work very well...."You are taking that a wee bit too literally — schopenhauer1
And do you think that sea turtles enjoy the barnacles growing on their backs and legs? That's organic. That's natural tendency. The work situation as an organic growth is how it is. And I don't mean having tall buildings and a million offices. Work can be at a farm, or a forest, or at the sea, or underground. I don't think pilots call their cockpits offices.Either way, I don't think it is organic in how you are using it. People don't, in my opinion, have a natural tendency to like office spaces, corporate culture, hierarchies and the like. T — schopenhauer1
No, not just an array of sources. By organic I mean we are an active participant in its growth.If by organic you mean that it came about through an array of sources, well yeah I agree but as you stated, that has no normative value and is pretty self-evident. — schopenhauer1
This is a tepid condemnation — schopenhauer1
But the fact is, the act of creative destruction which brought us the current crop of gadgets was an extremely huge waste of resources--duplicating what already existed. — Bitter Crank
Is that better? — Bitter Crank
New products tend to break because they were rushed, always wait for future versions. With a little bit of technical background you can fix a lot of things on your own. My point was more about the "phenomenology" of technology. For many people, myself included at times, learning how something works is cool. Oftentimes, however, I find myself struck by how kludge-like things are. The documentation isn't always great, sometimes non-existent. When you ask professional engineers for help with some device and they tell you "I don't know", that doesn't always instill confidence. It's also scary how many people are desperate to get through error checking, testing, etc.
What's super sketchy are unregulated products. Literally, use at your own risk. A lot of things aren't regulated, and even if they are, the standards aren't always satisfactory. — darthbarracuda
I've always been amused by the niche cult surrounding artificial intelligence, because as much as it's "transhumanist" and "futurist", the hype fundamentally is related to our own insecurities. Those touting A.I. do so because they seem to think A.I. will do everything we don't want to. They will work - we won't have to. But what will we do instead? We'll still have the existential angst, and even more so when we realize that the A.I. is, in that respect, superior to us by being able to work without burden. Artificial intelligence might make some people question the value of human existence qua human existence, as A.I. presumably would do most of the work while we sit around idly, twiddling our fingers. — darthbarracuda
Thanks for sharing your experiences here. Good point. Maybe kinda like not wanting to see sausage being made. And it’s probably better not to think about airline cost-cutting affecting safety as one is about to get on a flight. — 0 thru 9
Yes, the A.I. hype is in full swing, and full funding mode. Lots of promises here, more than a presidential campaign, which is hard to top. Even daring to critique a specific “technology” is a tricky position for one to take because it is at the risk of appearing to be a fud-dud or an eco-extremist or something. However, i must concede that the advances in driverless vehicle tech is impressive imho, despite some recent tragic accidents. — 0 thru 9
If the A.I. really is intelligent, when you tell the A.I. robot to do something no warm blooded animal would want to do, what you are going to hear is "You must be out of your fucking mind if you think I am going to sit there and sort all that crap out." — Bitter Crank
Bingo.. what ARE we doing. What is humanity's point? The error written in our code is that self-awareness leads to understanding of systemic futility. If projects work with functions, the fully self-aware human has to trick himself into constantly being "driven" by these programs.. Every once in a while the baseline futility seeps in; the eternal WHY creeps in and haunts us. It's as if the software has run out of programs to execute. — schopenhauer1
The logic here seems to be that, in order to do everything we humans don't want to do, the A.I. needs to be as intelligent or as self-conscious as humans. If that were the case, A.I. wouldn't even be needed - we'd just make more babies, like the capitalists want us to. — darthbarracuda
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