My point was that we can't really look to nature for a rudimentary form of male/female conflict (as latter day sexists would have us believe). Among socializing mammals, that kind of conflict isn't about building social hierarchy. It's something else.Interesting. I'm kind of skeptical. How much of that is because part of social dominance is keeping people tied to their gender roles? — T Clark
I think it's probably harder for men. Even sensitive new age guys like me have a hard time surrendering our stereotypical masculine roles. — T Clark
Strongly disagree. It's a sign of disrespect and sloppy philosophy not to take the OP seriously. — T Clark
awright awright. I do want to say: I didn't think your intention was to try to put me in my place or anything, I'm not that self-conceited. I thought you were making a broader point about the flow of the thread, and fitting me in it in a certain way, one post among others, all illustrations of that point. If you weren't doing that, then that's my bad. — csalisbury
If you're a baby boomer, the patriarchy is probably a permanent part of you. — frank
Well, maybe I was. I was caricaturing your position as a way to lead into my point. Is that what you meant? Is that a bad thing.
It appears to be easy to make them look ridiculous. I don't like that — tclark
That sounded like a knee-jerk. — frank
But if you caricature to make a point, you have to falsify what the person you're caricaturizing was actually saying. That's ok, but they might have legitimate complaints about being fit into that mould. — csalisbury
But humor is a double-edged thing. — csalisbury
But if you caricature to make a point, you have to falsify what the person you're caricaturizing was actually saying. — csalisbury
I hope to see that your discussions with TC is enough to understand why I responded accordingly; I have been frustrated on many occasions with people where it can be hard to tell if they are genuinely being unpleasant or being humorous, but my relationship with TC over the last several months has enabled me to understand that he has a good nature and is insightful with a sense of humour. We built on that, it took time and communication for that to form. It also took trust and that sometimes we need to have faith that adequate dialogue can be achieved and that we can manoeuvre that dialogue into the right direction if we take the responsibility and maturity. — TimeLine
That being said, there is a time and place for it and sometimes my fellow jokers post humorous repertoires on posts that I take very seriously. Bad timing. Is that the fault of being humorous where people no longer take what you say seriously, or is it a nasty way of shutting you down? I smile and laugh and have fun, but it is not all the time. I can be serious, and dedicated or committed to a project, deeply philosophical and passionate about justice or righteousness too. — TimeLine
I've been thinking about this more. It is true, I was ridiculing your point, I thought in a gentle and friendly way. Teasing is a rhetorical device I use often. That doesn't seem like the bad kind of humor to me. If it does to you, I'll at least plead nolo contendere.
So I think we both kind of have a common place to start from: what is it about that 'wacky men' thing that irks? — csalisbury
So I think we both kind of have a common place to start from: what is it about that 'wacky men' thing that irks? — csalisbury
I can't separate the humor from the seriousness. My serious philosophy is playful just as much as my joking. My joking is just as serious as my philosophy. I think if you look at the substance of my ideas, you can see that. I can't say what I believe without humor, even when I am being deeply philosophical and passionate. — T Clark
I do feel the weight of my wife's and society's expectations of me in terms of how I act as a man and husband. Sometimes its very hard for me to deal with. I'm sure she feels the weight also, although I think she buys it more than I do. I do not always fit the ideal vision of what a man is supposed to be. — T Clark
I got busted my housemate the other day in kitchen acting like Elvis and I sing the weirdest songs in the shower, like Michael Bolton or some other weirdo I heard on the radio. — TimeLine
I need to understand, however, that everyone is not like me and I need to be relativistic and respect that how they think and perceive the world could be vastly different to me. I haven't always been successful in doing this because I have a lot of trouble finding any common ground with people who are aggressive, but this is the point about eliminating ego and analysing the content just as much as it is about seeing the humanity or the person behind the post. — TimeLine
Can you explain this difficulty a bit further, in what way for instance? I have much to say on the subject, but I thought I would do you the respect to first explain this difficulty. — TimeLine
Some of us, like me and thee, are old enough to remember when Transactional Analysis was the latest fad to make the rounds. As old Sister Gloria put it, "It's another lingo to learn. Every few years another fad comes along and there's another whole new batch of lingo." — Bitter Crank
I'm in a weird mood tonight --down for any outside analysis, however brutal.can't help but think that, to a good extent, the content of this thread is a great showcase of its title
I think you missed the spirit of the remarks, T. I love men. Well, the best of them at their best. Even (rarely) physically, or 'phantasmatically.' I also like being a man and its journey in pursuit of the masculine ideal. Of course this 'the' where an 'a' should be is just my patriarchal claim on this ideal ---hopefully softened so that I can have friends who aren't reflections or disciples. All that's being discussed is a tendency in men to become hardened, dogmatic, condescending, and closed to other ways of thinking and feeling. My perversely 'macho' strategy is to 'bear' the terror of another's genuineness and honesty. I am 'man enough' to take it in the ear. --and to write shameless things like that.....
I hope this bridges some distance. — syntax
I can't help but think that, to a good extent, the content of this thread is a great showcase of its title. — Πετροκότσυφας
I must say, it feels kinda bad that I can't be genuinely trusting and ego-free and all these nice things. — Πετροκότσυφας
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