it isn't even clear how one would go about verifying or falsifying a moral claim — Michael
what can we do to resolve the disagreement? — Michael
Well, hold on. Let's not confuse resolving disagreement between ourselves with the truth of the matter in question. We could do the former without thereby having determined the latter. I'm not interested in resolving disagreements. If X is true and you disagree, then so be it and so much the worse for you. If you respond by asking how we know that X is true, then presumably you are requesting the reasons why X is true. If you disagreed with those reasons, your mere disagreement alone still wouldn't make X not true. — Thorongil
I can always retort by asking how one goes about verifying or falsifying the claim that it isn't clear how to go about verifying or falsifying a moral claim. — Thorongil
That's true of all non-scientific claims, so this doesn't bother me.
what can we do to determine the fact of the matter? — Michael
Is there some empirical or rational method available to us to show that something either is or isn't immoral? — Michael
So it doesn't bother you that you can't support your claim that X is wrong, or that moral realism is correct? — Michael
Another way of saying that might be that it pertains to action not being. IOW the act of making babies is neither good nor bad intrinsically, it's objectively good or bad (from whatever point of view - e.g. human beings or dromedary jumping-slugs) depending on circumstances. — gurugeorge
the "Nature" one might wish to protect by not having us filthy humans polluting the planet is also intrinsically neither good or bad, so "it's evil to make babies because muh Nature" isn't an argument. — gurugeorge
And in relation to any given desideratum, procreation has objective costs and objective benefits that can be weighed up. — gurugeorge
Okay. Seems you're a utilitarian, then. — Thorongil
That wasn't my argument. I'm not an antinatalist, remember. But this logic cuts both ways, so the procreator isn't on any firmer footing. — Thorongil
I do not see that there could be any such benefits, given the nature of what a benefit is. — Thorongil
Think about what you're saying here: you're asking me if there are any non-selfish benefits to devoting time and energy to the raising and nurturing of another life. — gurugeorge
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