Everyone, including Obama himself, didn't think he deserved the Nobel Peace Prize.

The stories you heard about the 12 Russians yesterday took place during the Obama Administration, not the Trump Administration. Why didn’t they do something about it, especially when it was reported that President Obama was informed by the FBI in September, before the Election? — Top Trump

I had to laugh. The old 'why didn't you stop me mummy?' defence.

The US president has an independent voice and uses it. It's refreshing. — raza

Amen. It is crude at times, rude at times but always honest.about how he sees things at the time, even if that position changes. He is showing the under pinning of most he meets with. People either love him or hate him, there is no in between.

Yeah when Trump is asked about Brexit during a press conference and instead discusses his property in Scotland and how he won Wisconsin, I'm like wow, what a refreshing, independent, and honest voice.

If the press is in the business of supporting candidates, then candidates ought attack those supporting their opponents. — Hanover

What do you mean "if". The vast majority of your news is privately owned, private owners have private interests, and there's no regulation concerning bias, ergo... CNN is selling anti-Trump stories and Fox is selling pro-Trump stories etc. Sure, call that out. But you can call it out in an intelligent focused way or you can just make blanket childish and unnuanced denunciations. No prizes for guessing what Trump does.

And though Trump gets a lot of bias thrown at him, that's a good thing within limits. It's better for the media to tend toward being critical of power, as long as it's factual, than the opposite. It's better for us to know the bad stuff they do than miss some of the good, as the bad is likely to be more damaging if missed. So, CNN is biased against Trump because they hype up the negative, they don't make it up though. Trump does say the stuff they report him as saying. He does constantly lie etc.

And so the Clintons were worse and the press gave them a pass. — Hanover

The US press will generally give you a pass if you do something like support or ignore Israel murdering Palestinians, generally just kill lots of brown people in the middle East for whatever reason, or support dictators, warlords who do so in whatever way it serves your interest etc. because there's not much money in making people realize how deeply and brutally immoral your country is. But yes, breach some stupid protocol or say a rude word and they will eat you up because there is a partisan audience for that. If Trump came out and actually said that, I'd be right behind him, but he's not going to give up his mass slaughter privilege. He just hasn't used it to the extent of some of his predecessors yet.

Agent Trumpov coming here to Finland to meet his handler next monday.

Helsinki is a perfect background for the biggest covert operation/espionage success in history . :grin:

Helsinki is a perfect background for the biggest covert operation/espionage success in history . :grin: — ssu

:starstruck: I was thinking about someone writing a novel and what an awesome name for a place holding this kind of meeting.

The vast majority of your news is privately owned, private owners have private interests, and there's no regulation concerning bias, — Baden

And the solution is a government run press?

The US press will generally give you a pass if you do something like support or ignore Israel murdering Palestinians, generally just kill lots of brown people in the middle East for whatever reason, or support dictators, warlords who do so in whatever way it serves your interest etc. — Baden

What color were the Nazis and the Russians?

There's nothing moral about sitting on the sidelines criticizing the one keeping you safe at night.

And the solution is a government run press? — Hanover

Not exclusively but regulation works. Ever hear of the BBC? Compare that to the shitshow that is CNN and Fox.

What color were the Nazis and the Russians? — Hanover

America's not killing Nazis now Hanover or Russians (not that they ever did kill Russians). I'm not criticizing FDR here.

There's nothing moral about sitting on the sidelines criticizing the one keeping you safe at night. — Hanover

Would you consider it moral to criticize those keeping you safe at night if a left-wing US government invaded Israel and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in the process? Or would you just keep your mouth shut and let it happen.

(And just as a point of order, America doesn't keep me safe at night. The country I come from is neutral, and the only alliance I would support would be with the EU. America is actually more of a threat to world peace than any other country I can think of bar Russia and North Korea.)

Not exclusively but regulation works. Ever hear of the BBC? Compare that to the shitshow that is CNN and Fox. — Baden

What regulations do you propose on CNN and Fox?

Ireland isn't safe because it's neutral. It's safe for the same reason no one steals my shoes from my unlocked gym locker. No one wants it.

Fool yourself into thinking America offers you no protection. It really doesn't matter. They'll protect you anyway.

My proposal would be that you put more funding into a regulated national broadcaster like NPR so it could be something like the BBC and would not be by law allowed to be openly biased. For private organizations like CNN and Fox they could show bias if they wanted, but they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves news if they're not actually news, just like if you're selling any consumer product you're required to advertise it accurately.

Ireland isn't safe because it's neutral. It's safe for the same reason no one steals my shoes from my unlocked gym locker. No one wants it. — Hanover

More fool you for living in a country someone wants.

Fool yourself into thinking America offers you no protection. It really doesn't matter. They'll protect you anyway. — Hanover

From who though? Europe has a nuclear deterrent that's enough to keep Russia at bay and it's not in Russia's interest to attack us. Besides, I think we ought to wean ourselves off relying on America and spend more on our own defense. Let you save money and go home. Everyone wins.

Fool yourself into thinking America offers you no protection. It really doesn't matter. They'll protect you anyway. — Hanover

Don't be an fool. American's "offering protection" is nothing but post-colonial pseudo-colonialism. You screwed every one of your Five Eyes partners with ECHELON.

We need American protection like the grocery owner in Little Italy need the "insurance" offered by thugs.

My proposal would be that you put more funding into a regulated national broadcaster like NPR so it could be something like the BBC and would not be by law allowed to be openly biased. — Baden

I'm actually not the first to argue that the BBC is biased. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_BBC

A free press is a check on government power, and it's typical of oppressive governments to control the media. A government imposed law illegalizing bias or even offering a certification for those organizations the government finds unbiased is an oppressive act. You're free to argue the BBC is a straight shooter, but surely you see a problem with the government blocking those news organizations that offer news varying from the BBC's governmentally decreed "unbiased" views.

If we did allow the government to decide what news to report, I propose Trump decide. If not him, then who and why? It's an awfully powerful position, and I hope my side gets chosen to write the history.

From who though? Europe has a nuclear deterrent that's enough to keep Russia at bay and it's not in Russia's interest to attack us. Besides, I think we ought to wean ourselves off relying on America and spend more on our own defense. Let you save money and go home. Everyone wins. — Baden

Why isn't Ireland negotiating for a nuclear free North Korea?

No-one is doing that. Trump is pretending to do it. But that pretence has already fallen to pieces. Give it to the UN and China I say. Look, everywhere the US has gone since after WWII you've made things worse not better. You've caused the deaths of literally millions of innocent civilians, and especially in Asia. Go home, leave the world alone, stop messing things up for everyone else. We don't want you policing things unilaterally.

It's simple. European media is better and less biased than yours. Follow our relatively successful model instead of your relatively failed one. Same goes for health care etc. You're just slow learners over there.

Go home, leave the world alone, stop messing things up for everyone else. — Baden

As you might be surprised to learn, I have little power over such decisions. Your hypothetical of what the world would be like without American international military involvement is obviously unanswerable, but it's very doubtful the West would have fared so well without US protection. But, whatever, be an ingrate. I'll still invite you over for tea.

It's simple. European media is better and less biased than yours. Follow our relatively successful model instead of your relatively failed one. Same goes for health care etc. You're just slow learners over there. — Baden

You're on a quite the hate train today. I like your passion though. You're almost as brazen as an American. Almost.

America is doing something right though. We've exported our goods and culture throughout the world. You can't get away from us.

On the other hand, Ireland's biggest export is your fleeing people. I think there's probably more Irish in Boston than Dublin. If you guys hate us, why do you keep coming over here?

If the US had stuck to acting within the bounds of the UN, as it originally did in Korea which was a UN operation, or would agree to do so in future, fine, but that hasn't been the history. And even if its other actions did benefit the West, so what? There's a whole world out there to worry about. My proposal is just that the rest of the world, especially Europe, pay more for their own defense and the world act through the UN, then we don't need to have these arguments and we can all drink tea or grit juice or whatever you fancy. Trump is right in his odd way, why is America paying to police the world? He just doesn't realize the answer is not charity but more like self-interest.

On the other hand, Ireland's biggest import is your fleeing people. I think there's probably more Irish in Boston than Dublin. If you guys hate us, why do you keep coming over here? — Hanover

Huh? If I hated you, why would I be giving you such good advice? Ireland has a better media environment, a better social welfare system, a higher GDP per capita, a better health care system, lower levels of poverty, and more charming people than the US. But you've got grit juice, so you win, I guess.

Here's the deal, just relax and copy everything we do, or more specifically me, and watch your lives/life flourish. :up:

Your people are quite charming, what with those accents and ruddy little cheeks. Then sometimes they take to drinking and it can take a bad turn.

That Michael Higgins though. Just adorable. https://www.boredpanda.com/people-love-ireland-president-michael-higgins/

@Baden And grits are dried ground corn. There's really no juice. You pour boiling water in them to make them edible, so grit juice would be hot water I guess. We use that to also make our tea that we then dump sugar in until it's semi-solid and we eat it with a fork. It's customarily served with a side of diabetes.

Then sometimes they take to drinking and it can take a bad turn. — Hanover

There is nothing more absurd then an american trying to tell the rest of the world that they don't know how to drink or hold their liquor.

There is nothing more absurd then an american trying to tell the rest of the world that they don't know how to drink or hold their liquor. — Akanthinos

Let's see... A challenge of sorts. How about a rabbit that gives birth to a house full of people playing Trivial Pursuit where they're arguing over whether Sally already answered the pie piece Arts and Literature question but Kevin can't find his stapler to fasten his letters from back home that were unstamped.

I'd think that's more absurd than an American commenting on Irish drinking habits. So color you wrong.

Love Michael. Pocket prez. We've got an asset, you've got an... :zip: But seriously, combine Ireland's common sense approach to politics and media with American optimism and pioneering spirit and you'd have the best of both worlds over there.