Best we learn to saver those cheap and traditional pleasures which are above the cranial and legislative reach of that sad and tremendous orange tempest we all so know and love to hate — VagabondSpectre

Aye, man the pumps, plug the holes, the orange tide shall not sink us, but be the buoy of our rhetorical rafts!

If Russia is indeed an enemy of the United States (is an "Enemy" well defined in this context?) then could any of Trumps statements or actions be considered as adhering to America's enemy or giving America's enemy aid and comfort?

Aye aye Cap'n!

*Begins swabbing feverishly*

Haha. Wow. "Sue the EU".

The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs gleefully Tweets support for Trump shooting his own country in the face.

There may be other laws which apply. I don't know, and am not inclined to research that right now, having quite enough legal work for which I'm being paid (though not enough). — Ciceronianus the White

The crime they seem to pursuing in this regard -- in addition to the possibility of various financial crimes, wire-fraud, conspiracy to commit cyber crimes. etc. -- is: Conspiracy to Defraud the United States and Conspiracy to Commit an Offense Against the United States. This would certainly qualify as "treason" in any reasonable colloquial, moral or political discourse, though of course not in the legal sense.

I think that in order to be an "enemy" under this clause, the person or nation must be more than a competitor, more than ideologically or economically opposed to the U.S., more than inclined to limit its influence and power. Whether the involvement of Russia in influencing elections through the means which have been employed would constitute acts of war or actions rendering it an "enemy" would seem to be an interesting question, but I don't know the answer. I enjoyed reading about the trial of Aaron Burr after Jefferson, in a moment of malice or madness, commenced his prosecution for treason and then told Congress Burr was a traitor and that of his guilt there could be no doubt, but that's about it as far as my exposure to the law of treason is concerned.

I wish them good luck. I think the man is an abomination.

You ask a very interesting question about honesty. I do define him being honest, as being true to how he feels at that moment and I have no doubt that he will speak it and that is being as honest with ones self as one can be. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Oh no, don't you see a problem with this sort of "honesty"? If the person prioritizes self-interest, wants to take advantage of others, and is deceitful, and says what that individual feels like saying, how can this be honesty? The person is acting deceitfully because that's what the person feels is the best tactic, yet you call it "honesty" because the person is "true to how he feels". I don't think so.

Do I think he would knowingly say something that he knows is not true? Nah, I don't think it is his style and for what purpose would he lie? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

How well do you think you know president Trump? I have seen evidence which demonstrates that he does lie. Most people lie now and then, for one reason or another. I don't know him well enough to say with any conviction for what purpose he would lie. However, he seems to me like the type of person whom if he wants something he will do what he thinks is necessary to make that desire come true, and that might include lying.

I feel like today is a major turning point, but it's obviously hard to say with certainty.

I am very curious to see how his approval rating will look in a week or two.

American money handlers etc blah blah? — raza

Do you know any of the facts concerning the economic crisis of 2008? Here's some info from Wikipedia:

The financial crisis of 2007–2008, also known as the global financial crisis and the 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to have been the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1][2][3][4]

It began in 2007 with a crisis in the subprime mortgage market in the United States, and developed into a full-blown international banking crisis with the collapse of the investment bank Lehman Brothers on September 15, 2008.[5]

...

The precipitating factor for the Financial Crisis of 2007–2008 was a high default rate in the United States subprime home mortgage sector – the bursting of the "subprime bubble".

...

The US Senate's Levin–Coburn Report concluded that the crisis was the result of "high risk, complex financial products; undisclosed conflicts of interest; the failure of regulators, the credit rating agencies, and the market itself to rein in the excesses of Wall Street."[34] — Wikipedia, Financial crisis of 2007–2008

Millions of homes were lost to foreclosure. It seems it's as they say, Trump supporters are simply uneducated. Get your shit together raza.

Amongst Rep he is still at 87%.

About 9 republicans out of 10 still support him, after this weeks revelations.

Look at Raza's, En Passant's, Tiff's and Augustino's degree of doublethinking when they accuse Stzrok of dubious character because of his affair and yet paint Trump as an honest person full of integrity despite being guilty of the same multiple times over.

I fear there are no ways to penetrate those cognitive defenses. Americans now have to face that a large part of their electorate are willing to defend a racist, sexist, criminal idiot because of party lines.

Amongst Rep he is still at 87%.

About 9 republicans out of 10 still support him, after this weeks revelations. — Akanthinos

Whatever current polls state generally reflect what occurred a week or two ago. Polling isn't instantaneous. That said, there will always be those, as you mentioned, who lap up the Trump punch.

He might limp through until 2020. Republicans won't impeach him over this. But he's a dead clown walking now. Americans do have some self-respect. — Baden

Trump has been laid to rest a dozen or so times already. You guys know nothing.

Of which the deficit in 2008 doubled by 2016.

Stzrok of dubious character because of his affair — Akanthinos

I never referred to Strzok’s affair and nor do I care who he was sextually humping.

Well, I think you underestimate partisanship, short term memories, special interests and the propaganda machine. It will go the way money wants it to go and they'll choose the tax breaks. The average natural person in the USA is immaterial.

Surreal, perhaps. On the other hand that missing hundred million might be those wise enough to stay clear of absurdity.

:rofl:

Yeah, but Theon kinda redeemed himself.

The reality could not be shown more evidently as in the news conference of yesterday. It doesn't come as shocking if you have listened to Trump in the end. Perhaps (or hopefully) more people are just noticing his utter incompetence and weakness.

After all, even if an US presidential candidate would have colluded with the Russians to get himself elected and the Russians would have something on him, it still wouldn't mean that the president would have to be such a slavish lackey as Trump. They (the Russians) would totally understand if the US president still would have some harsh words at them from time to time. They wouldn't "kill their gold laying goose" by making a scandal because of some minor issue. They would be happy for far less. This just shows Trump's utter incompetence.

It's still very fascinating when you think of it.

Of which the deficit in 2008 doubled by 2016. — raza

And that economic problem was caused by foreigners or American greed?

If you're interested: What Is Giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy?.

Also relevant:

Ex Parte Bollman and Ex Parte Swartwout, 8 U.S. 75 (1807):

The term 'enemies', as used in the second clause, according to its settled meaning, at the time the Constitution was adopted, applies only to the subjects of a foreign power in a state of open hostility with us. — Chief Justice Marshall

Also:

[levying war] is a technical term. It is used in a very old statute of that country whose language is our language, and whose laws form the substratum of our laws. It is scarcely conceivable that the term was not employed by the framers of our constitution in the sense which had been affixed to it by those from whom we borrowed it. So far as the meaning of any terms, particularly terms of art, is completely ascertained, those by whom they are employed must be considered as employing them in that ascertained meaning, unless the contrary be proved by the context. It is, therefore, reasonable to suppose, unless it be incompatible with other expressions of the constitution, that the term "levying war" is used in that instrument in the same sense in which it was understood, in England and in this country, to have been used in statute 25 of Edward III., from which it is borrowed. — Chief Justice Marshall

Regarding that statute (the Treason Act 1351), Sir Michael Foster (an English judge) said in Discourse on High Treason in 1762:

States in Actual Hostility with Us, though no War be solemnly Declared, are Enemies within the meaning of the Act.

This latter quote explicitly states both that there can be open hostility without a declaration of war and that a nation can be an enemy even without a declaration of war.

@Baden why it's going to be Trump again

EDIT: also, check out the comments section on Breitbart: Breitbart

It's the same type of insanity raza is peddling here.

And that economic problem was caused by foreigners or American greed? — Metaphysician Undercover

Are the Rothschilds regarded as American?

Are the Rothschilds regarded as American? — raza

Irrelevant, the Rothschilds were not the cause of the 2008 economic crisis.

Are you comfortable demonstrating the status "uneducated"?

Irrelevant, the Rothschilds were not the cause of the 2008 economic crisis. — Metaphysician Undercover

It's an ongoing system. Do you think "economic crisis 2008" randomly sprang up in 2008?

Very good article but that was almost a year ago. Republicans above all appreciate strength. Now that Trump has shown himself twice, first with May but more spectacularly with Putin to be at the very least weak and a coward, and debateably a traitor too, his goose is well and truly cooked, and I for one will be enjoying seeing him get eaten all the way up to 2020.